Metaphysics

Hey "jon", do you believe in unicorns?

Post 21

Monday, June 9, 2003 - 10:17am

So Jeremy, with the anology of the green monkeys and the correlation to Christ, all people in the world were actually crazy? And less philosophy... have you read the bible? I am no bible banger, just curious how you guys would explain this situation. So, am I to question whether or not Lincoln actually freed the slaves? Because now I realize that a bunch of people seeing it and believing it and recording it, doesn't actually make it so.

I don't believe in unicorns, but I guess I still have to believe that Jesus was the single most persuasive man that ever lived. Or at least one hell of a publisher.

Post 22

Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 10:54am

Whether there is a �God� or not, has no relevance to my life what so ever. The bible is not proof that 'God' exists. It is a collection of stories. Do you believe everything that you read? That we exist is not proof of 'Gods' existence. It is simply proof that we exist. That I do not know exactly how life/matter etc. came to be, is not proof that �God� exists. That is simply proof of my own ignorance.

I live by the premise that my life is mine to live as I see fit. If there is a �God�, and this �God� should have a problem with that, I would assume that �he/she/it� knows where to find me. Until such time, I shall remain a happy agnostic. ;)

Post 23

Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 10:45pm

Crazy isn't the term I'd use to describe believers in Christ. A lack of rationality would be more appropriate. If one believes a man was born the son of "god", and can perform fantastic miracles of healing and insight based on that relationship with "god", then one simply does not use the logical faculties of their mind fully. It can be proven that lincoln freed the slaves, you can't dispute that. I don't know any slaves, never have, and don't know anyone that owns one. And the immense cotton and tabacco production of the South proves there ~were~ slaves at the time, so something happened. The life and deeds of Christ cannot be proven to be fully accurate, simply because the deeds of Christ exist only in stories compiled within the Bible, and in the minds of those who believe in him. And belief does not equal truth. No empirical data can be put forth on Christ's genealogy or miracles because none exists...unless you have something you'd like to tell us, jon? I don't dispute that Christ may have been a real person, but because he may have been a very convincing showman doesn't make him a deity. And no, I haven't read much of the bible. The very first sentence negates any reason to read the thing.
J

Post 24

Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 2:10am

Belladona if your an agnostic you should read,
Atheism; the case against God by George H Smith. It shows why agnosticism is either a reluctance to make a decision either way on the subject, or a belief in god in disguise.

Post 25

Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:31am

Thank you Marcus for your book recommendation. I don't have enough facts to make an informed decision. I do not believe that God exists, but I can't back that up with facts. So I call myself an agnostic. Really means that I just don't care one way or another. (Same goes with all things that bump in the night.) I lump belief in God in with voodoo, superstition, ghosts etc. None of which have any influence on my life. One fact that I do have, is that the Bible has been over interpreted, translated, and translated again, so it is useless as a factual document.

Post 26

Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 7:02am

Jeremy,

I think when we atheists talk about Jesus, we should'nt call him "Christ." That implies that he is something that he isn't. When I talk with people about Jesus, I never use the title of "Christ" becuase the title implies more than should ever be granted, even for rhetoric's sake. My two cents!

Post 27

Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 8:13pm

Umm...okay.
J

Monday, June 16, 2003 - 7:43am

j, should we discredit sources such as the dead sea scrolls and all the hebrew and aramaic texts that all tell the same accounts found in different regions in the middle east? And it isn't like the texts don't intertwine with actual places and events that have been recorded, such as temples destroyed in Jerusalem and the like. I see the end result of that, much like slavery. I guess my ignorance just makes it impossible for me to comprehend how your examples are true, but the bible wouldn't be, while they are the same type of examples. And I get it, no one can prove God's existence. Do me one favor, point me in the direction of the proof of the Big Bang Theory. Oh, my bad. I said theory. Why do they call it that again since I am positive it can be proven without a shadow of a doubt. I mean, you are here, so clearly it is undisputable.

Post 29

Monday, June 16, 2003 - 1:17pm

One thing that can be said, Jon...all these texts you speak of contain quite a bit of history, accurate or otherwise. The Bible has a lot of ~history~. Now...whether you want to give credence to everything else BUT history...such as all things god...and the divinity and salvation attributed in Jesus Christ and his sacrifice...is a LEAP of FAITH. History...or Faith? Two different things here. You can question and test history...but what of faith?

I have been a practicing Christian, I have read the bible, I have been an agnostic, I have read George Smith's book, which I HIGHLY recommend, and now I consider myself an atheist. All in that order!

As far as the Big Bang Theory goes, it is a theory, because scientists realize that each passing year brings more information that challenges or confirms their careful equations and observations of the universe. I doubt they arrived at said theory by reading a slew of dusty old tomes.

Seriously...in good spirits, Jon...read the George Smith book, and take it as a friendly challenge. You may find it beneficial, you may find it reprehensible. But it addresses many of the things everyone seems to be bringing up in here, with clarity.

Post 30

Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 10:26pm

Kristinjoy pretty much covered it there, Jon.
J

Post 31

Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 9:44am

While I think it's fair that Objectivism has a stance on metaphysics, I don't think it is necessary to buy into that stance to practice Objectivism.

If there is a God, it�s definitely not one that complies with wishes or prayers. Believing the contrary can do nothing but cause problems. I like to think of God, or the universe, as one giant mathematical equation that science and western thought is trying to unravel. Pondering existence is fun and thought provoking. However it just seems to be a form of entertainment. What we do know is that we are here on this planet now, and we have to survive. In our pursuit of survival and happiness within that survival, I think Objectivism is a sound philosophy to live by.

Post 32

Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 4:56am

Elwayigod;
' While I think it's fair that Objectivism has a stance on metaphysics, I don't think it is necessary to buy into that stance to practice Objectivism.'

Answer me this question; what is the meaning of the word objective, or objectivity?

Post 33

Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 9:21pm

It means subjective!

Tuesday, September 2, 2003 - 3:12pm

I take Objectivity, in the metaphysical sense, to mean that the world exists outside of our existence. Where subjectivity claims that the world is created by our existence.

I think it is fair to say that if a "God" created the objective world you could still practice Objectivism and agree that there is a higher power.

Post 35

Tuesday, September 2, 2003 - 3:37pm

Well, ElwayIsGod, it seems to me that you're trying to prove something by making an assumption.

"If" there is a God then I should agree that there is a higher power.

Do you pretend to be an Objectivist?

Post 36

Sunday, September 7, 2003 - 1:47pm

This is the word of God

It seems there has been some arguing on the question of my existence. Since these words that I am writteng, and the means that I am writting them, and the fact I am in a computer lab with video cameras to observe my existence does indeed prove that I exist. Since I also exist on faith, and my existence can be proven... Wait! OH NO! I'm IN A CONTRADICTION, I'M DYING! GOOD BYE REAL WORLD. WHY COULDN'T MY EXISTENCE MAKE ANY SENSE!? WHY ME(GOD)?! WHY?!

ACK!!!

Post 37

Sunday, September 7, 2003 - 1:50pm

Well I guess that settles that question once and for all.

Pianoman

BTW, I exist

Post 38

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 8:42am

hello everyone,
it was good to read all that.specially all the convincing proof against GOD,as to me that sort of a question doesn't weigh much y?'cos there's no real reason for me to even weigh the possibility of beleiving something on faith.and i think u've been far too nice with "jon" guy,look at his statements for CHRIST's sake!.and here in India u get a whole bunch of guys like jon,and much more worse.
thanx anyways.
rahul.

Post 39

Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 7:00pm