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Post 40

Sunday, February 9, 2003 - 11:16pmSanction this postReply
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Well, I always found the idea of my parents having sex to be a little icky, although I rationally knew they had to have done it at least 3 times. (I have 2 brothers.)

Now, my parents were never very affectionate in front of us kids, and later on (after my dad dumped my mom for another woman) he told me that he stopped loving her way back in the mid-1960's!

Actually, I do believe my grandparents actually stopped having sex long before I was born. They actually had twin beds, like in the old movies!

Post 41

Monday, February 10, 2003 - 5:56pmSanction this postReply
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I must stand out, here, because my parents have always been very sexually open (perhaps lending to why I never thought of sex as way to rebel and thus still am a virgin). They spoke to me several times about having sex and I think what really drove it home that my parents were human beings who experience romantic feelings was the fact that my father would always say, "Look at that one!" when he saw large breasts and my mother drooled over Kevin Sorbo. They're still happily married 20 years after the fact and I'm sure, now that I'm out of the house and in college, they've been going at it constantly. I'd be more concerned if they weren't.

Post 42

Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 6:28amSanction this postReply
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Hi Hippie,

You do stand out a bit, but hopefully when our respective children discuss their parents in the future they will say pretty much what you just did. LOL!

It's important to me that our kids see us in a positive light when it comes to romance and sex. I had to laugh because my husband and I sound a lot like your folks and there are days I wish our kids were at school so we could 'go at it constantly' as you say. *grin*

Joy :)

Post 43

Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 8:31amSanction this postReply
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Hippie,

I actually agree with you. I've always wondered about my parents relationship because I can count the number of times I've seen them kiss on one hand. Growing up, I wanted to know they were having sex, but my mom and dad weren't comfortable talking about it. My parents have been married for 30 years and if you asked them, I think they would say they were happy (but I'm not sure they would define happiness in the same way I would). But I know I could not survive in the type of relationship they have.

Jen

Post 44

Monday, March 17, 2003 - 8:52amSanction this postReply
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On the subject of child adult relationships.

The age of mental maturity differs from individual to individual (and is dependent on many factors) and the age of consent laws are usually (in the western world) based on when a person reaches a sufficient level of biological maturity, and 18 is the average age, and I agree with that approach.

When a person reaches the age of biological maturity they have the limits of their intellectual potential open to them to excercise so they should - in theory - be able to make important life decisions. A child (a person whose biological maturity is in it's infancy stage) doesn't have the sufficient biological development, life experience or knowledge in order to make important decisions (regarding sex) without guidance.

This issue is complex and I welcome discussion but I doubt any decent person would argue that a child has the intellectual maturity to exercise good judgement when presented with a sexual proposition from an adult. The subject of sex shouldn't be trivialized as it is in our mainstream culture, the act of sex can produce either wanted or unwanted psychological and/or physical impressions that last can last an individual there life time.

In reply to joy's post that the women she spoke to said they enjoyed the feeling of being molested when they were children.

I agree that stimulating the sex organs produces pleasure but Nathaniel Branden (the anti-thesis to freud) illustrates children's psychological development and possible reasons behind why people claim to have enjoyed being molested as children in his Books; Take responsibilty, The Art of Living consciously and Honoring the self. He illustrates that usually repression is the motivation behind there claim, an attempt at forging some sense of control over the past situation, I think it's very similar to women who claim that they enjoyed past realtionships where they were routinely abused by there spouses (it happens).

Post 45

Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 3:28amSanction this postReply
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On the child issue.
(I have to cite Wikipedia Online Encyclopedia with stating definitive...umm...definitions of the terms...it's a really useful resource.)

Age of consent seems to be a subjective issue, considering the wide array of ages that have been deemed appropriate in having sexual relations, in any given society/nation. Even in a totally free, capitalist society, I can't see how even John Galt would determine Age of Consent based on a standard, set age.

An adult is defined as a fully mature organism--mature meaning physically, since animals can't be emotionally mature, can they? In its reference to humans, adulthood must mean that stage in life when an individual can rationally judge what is in their best interest, since man's mind is what he needs for survival; this would define an adult for me.

But what about really smart kids? Some actually do realize what's best for their lives at a very young age, so would they be considered adults? Depends. If a suit is brought against a legal adult, say an 18 year old man (because to prosecute a crime you must be able to define the offender, and what makes him such) by a child's parents, then perhaps the best way of determining whether the sex was consensual is by psychological examination of the child. The examination would determine if the child knows right from wrong, and can make valid, rational decisions based on information within realistic situations; similar to examinations done by courts to determine whether a man on trial is sane or not--whether he knows right from wrong. There is an inherent flaw in this system--the examiner. After all, they would be the final say in whether the child ~rationally~ consented. But this is the closest proximity to a viable solution as I can get.

All of this taken into account, how can one expect a child to make rational decisions? Well, besides a few exceptions, one can't. A child lacks life experience, and can rarely place actions and their consequences in context with complex, vital issues such as sex. Of course, that's why we don't expect children to have sex. A standard Age of Consent is in every society, throughout history, in varying age brackets. Despite the lower age standards for some societies, there was still ~some~ kind of accepted norm. My contention is that humans have realized that a child cannot be expected, on average, to make rational decisions all the time. Therefore a certain protection is afforded children, by the laws of a given society. The same protection should most likely be given to human with the body and legal age of an adult, but the mind of a child. A person with mental defects can't be expected to make rational decisions on their own behalf all the time.

There must be a reason an Age of Consent exists. In some cases, sex with children will cause physical injury. In others, a sense of dependency on the perpetrator--(or enslavement to the same). The most commonly-known result is a sense of guilt--from parents, society, etc. While a child can enjoy the physical sensations of sexual contact, that doesn't make it inherently right. If I enjoy the physical sensation of having sex with forty different women in a given week, does that make it right?Aren't there consequences? Pregnancy, disease, jealousy...(not to mention I'd probably die from a lack of energy by the end of the week) Because it feels good, it is good? Nietzsche-esque, I'd say.

Coercion is not moral. Blackmail--"Everyone will hate you if you tell"--is not moral. Persuasion can be a valid form of interaction, but ~only if both sides are completely informed of all the repercussions of their actions~. A definitive answer on age of consent is difficult...but the most logical one I can come up with is: Consent requires rational thought, and knowledge of one's actions, and their consequences.Can we expect a child to be completely informed, even a child genius?
Most of the time? Nope.
So age of consent may not be a subjective issue after all...

J

Post 46

Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 12:19amSanction this postReply
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About children… If he/she is sitting in a bar drinking a martini, (stirred not shaken ;), then he/she is probably adult enough to be an equal. If he/she is playing in the playground at the public school, then he/she is probably too young to be an equal unless you are also attending public school. The ideal mate is perhaps different in many ways yes, but capable of being equal. Children are not capable of standing on equal footing with adults. They need a chance to form and grow into the people they are meant to be with out undo influence. It is far too easy for an adult to manipulate/hurt a child, and really, is the fruit not sweeter if it is ripe? As for snuff films… that someone had to die for the sake of another’s pleasure? DUH, no. I would think that that would be the ultimate infringement of rights and consenting to die for the sake of another, or, wishing to see another die for your pleasure, is not what I would consider to be an objectivist concept. As for consenting adult porn, well that is up to the individual. I do find it appalling that some kinds of sex, (eg: oral/anal), between consenting adults etc, is outlawed in some states. Ask yourself who rights are being infringed upon in cases like this?

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