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Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 10:22amSanction this postReply
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Is it "right" in whichever context to take the life of one individual to save the lives of ten? Does the Bentham idea of "the greatest good for the greatest number" transcend  the 'rights' of the individual?

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Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 6:01pmSanction this postReply
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No.

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Monday, November 1, 2004 - 7:12amSanction this postReply
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Sure, consider the case of  Regina v. Dudley and Stephens. Two crewman on a shipwreck killed and ate their ailing young shipmate in order to escape imminent death by starvation. I think three crewmen actually ate the guy. So the death of one saved three. Were the number ten instead of three, my view wouldn't change. I consider it reasonable for a person, who would otherwise die, to kill and eat another, gross as that might be.
 
Also, I can imagine a situation where I've caused the imminent death of either one or ten people, and I can save only the one or the ten. I can give you details if you like.
 
Jordan


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Tuesday, November 2, 2004 - 8:02amSanction this postReply
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Does "the greatest good for the greatest number" transcend  the 'rights' of the individual?

No, it does not.

This is the justification often presented for the majority of social programs and is in fact the ethics of cannibalism (I think Rand said that, don't recall exactly where).

I want to add a more reasoned reply to your question courtney but at the momment I can't provide one.  My own knowledge of objectivist ethics is limited.  I would encourage you to research the philosophy as I am doing.  www.importanceofphilosophy.com is a good resource also http://www.solohq.com/Objectivism/

~E.

(Edited by Eric J. Tower on 11/02, 8:18am)


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Tuesday, November 2, 2004 - 8:28amSanction this postReply
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There is no such thing as "the greatest/greater" good. There is only the good, for the individual.

John

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Tuesday, November 2, 2004 - 3:19pmSanction this postReply
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I would modify what John Newnham said. Only the individual can possess the good, even though there could be more good with more people. That is, if it's good for the individual to, say, hold a steady job, then X and Y holding jobs is more good than just X holding a job. The thing is, why should we care if there's more total good in the world, if that good isn't held by us? From an O'ist viewpoint, we should care only inasmuch as that good affects us for better or worse.

Jordan


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Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 2:24pmSanction this postReply
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The shipwreck example mentioned above relies on the Objectivist ethics of emergency.

The NIOF ethics which we subscribe to relate to the normal free social setting in which there is no misalignment of interests among rational men. In this situation, we have what we need to survive independently and interact with others to further our pursuit of values.

In the shipwreck example there are critically limited survival resources and (contrary to normal society) the existence of others represents a threat to our lives. In these special circumstances, we retain our fundamental standard of value (one's own life) and do what's necessary to preserve it.

Another example might be quarantining someone when you have evidence that the person carries some disease that may wipe the rest of us out. Another would be destroying a gas company's oil supplies which are vulnerable to capture by the enemy in a time of war (as the British did as the Japanese swept down through SE Asia) though I am not sure at what point you would decide the context justified the ethics of emergency (I'd probably need to know more about the specific case).

None of this implies some "common good" or justification of violating rights (which apply, of course, to normal social settings) when the perceived "common good" is said to benefit from doing so.

AB.


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