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Post 0

Monday, January 17, 2005 - 12:38pmSanction this postReply
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Well, it's finally happened.  The nanny state now makes it illegal to hit old people.  Interfering in the family is nothing new for these meddlers.  We knew that once they made it illegal to smack little Johnny, it would not be long before it became illegal to smack Grandpa.

Face it: sometimes there is good reason to use moderate force against old people. As their minds deteriorate, they no longer listen to reason.  Also, being old, they think they know everything and they argue instead of doing what is best for them.  Also, often being your own parents means that they do not accept your authority.  Old people often lack buttocks suitable for spanking, so a gentle slap on the face or a twist of the arm tells them who is in charge. 

--- ON THE OTHER HAND...
 
Violence Against the Elderly
One older adult in four experiences some kind of abuse or neglect, according to the American Medical Association. And more than two-thirds of those who abuse the elderly are family members of the victims, typically serving as their caregivers. The abuse can range from injuring the person physically to taking advantage of him or her financially.
http://www.4woman.gov/PYPTH/articles/aa_violence_elderly.html

Violence against the elderly: the relevance of an old health problem. Cad. Saúde Pública, June 2003, vol.19, no.3, p.783-791. ISSN 0102-311X.
... violence against elderly Brazilians is more widespread and varied than this, as reflected by cases of physical, psychological, sexual, and financial abuse and neglect that fail to reach the health care system; rather, such cases are "taken for granted", seen as basically natural within the daily routine of family relations and various forms of social and public policy neglect.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0102-311X2003000300010&script=sci_abstract&tlng=en

The Provincial Strategy Against Violence An Action Plan
The Statistics Canada Survey on Violence Against Women indicates that many incidents of violence against women are never reported to the police. Similarly, incidents of violence against the elderly, dependent adults or the disabled are rarely reported. While anyone who has knowledge of or suspects abuse of children must, by law, report this to child welfare authorities or the police, it is reasonable to assume that cases of violence against children go undetected and unreported. Lack of awareness about what constitutes abuse and how to access services contributes to under-reporting.
http://www.gov.nf.ca/exec/wpo/eng/strategy.htm

Elder Abuse
Elder abuse is when older people are abused, neglected, and taken advantage of. Many victims are people who are older and frail and depend on others to meet their needs. Family members of the victim are responsible for most cases of elder abuse. Elder abuse can include:
physical abuse, sexual abuse, and psychological abuse financial exploitation (using the resources of an older person, without his or her consent for someone else’s benefit) neglect

But abuse does not have to be a part of growing older. You can take steps to protect yourself. Choose someone you trust to help you make important decisions about your healthcare, living arrangements, and finances. Try to stay involved in matters that directly affect you. Learn about the signs of elder abuse, so you can help protect the elderly people in your life.
http://www.4woman.gov/violence/elder.cfm



Post 1

Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 5:03pmSanction this postReply
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I just don't see why? An older person losing their mind can't learn any 'lessons'. If they were still able to determine whats right for them they'd do it. My own great-grandmother is losing hers but no one has to force her to do anything. She's just about lost her ability to speak English but her French is still good and I can follow it well enough. They took care of us now we have to take care of them, its that simple. There aren't any more lessons to be learned, just be happy with the time you have left.

Post 2

Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 3:11pmSanction this postReply
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"...physical abuse, sexual abuse, and psychological abuse"

EW

Yes, it should not be illegal to hit old people, as much as I dislike the idea. 

But here I wonder: what is the merit in resorting to violence against crazy old people, if it is just to ensure the rest of their pointless, pitiful lives? 

I recall an aunt of a friend of mine, who spends her days lost in morphine-land, calling family members from beyond her stupor, all the while living on tax dollars. 
She called him once, and I asked, "who was that?" 
He answered, "My Aunt; she's dead."
At seeing my confusion, he said, "She's dead in every sense of the word, except the physical one."

I then recall a scene from the TV drama, ER.  A doctor who had had a particularly hard day was in charge of a young man who had received a bullet wound in a gang fight.  He was a young-ish miscreant, who had spent his life on the streets doing drugs, murdering, stealing, etc.  When the patient's heart stops, the doctor immediately rushes over to the EKG machine (or whatever that heart-resuscitating machine is) and prepares to revive his heart.  However, he pauses, pads suspended in mid-air, and seeing no one else in the room, lets him die

I wish to know Objectivism's stance on the elderly.  I'm quite sure I cannot endorse the doctor's decision, likewise my friend calling his aunt dead.  However, what is the right thing to do in situations when the morphine-addicted, the malfunctioning, the repeat offenders, and the strains on society explicitly depend on us for life?

=Michael



Post 3

Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 4:09pmSanction this postReply
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Caned asked:
However, what is the right thing to do in situations when the morphine-addicted, the malfunctioning, the repeat offenders, and the strains on society explicitly depend on us for life?
I will speak only for myself and not for Objectivism.

Dependent persons can offer only gratitude as payment for the generosity of others.  When they cannot or will not offer such gratitude, my attitude is to let them perish as they so richly deserve.

Even those who do offer gratitude have no moral claim on others.  But at least they admit that those others have no "duty" to help them.  Those who do spill the word "duty" from their lips earn no sanction from the independent producers of this world.  Assisting them only encourages the scourge of altruism.


Luke Setzer


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