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Thursday, December 1, 2005 - 4:20pmSanction this postReply
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In describing what he views as some of the hazards of Ayn Rand's philosophy, Nathaniel Branden makes the following points:

"What I have to say will by no means be exhaustive or comprehensive, but I do want to touch on just a few issues that strike me as especially important. I want to share with you what I have observed.

"Confusing reason with 'the reasonable'

"I have said that Ayn Rand was a great champion of reason, a passionate champion of the human mind—and a total adversary of any form of irrationalism or any form of what she called mysticism. I say 'of what she called mysticism,' because I do not really think she understood mysticism very well—I know she never studied the subject—and irrationalism and mysticism are not really synonymous, as they are treated in Atlas Shrugged. That gets me a little off my track, however. A discussion of mysticism outside the Randian framework will have to wait for some other occasion. I will only state for the record that I am not prepared to say, as Rand was, that anyone who might describe him- or herself as a 'mystic' is to be dismissed as a crackpot or a charlatan."

Of course not; that would hitting a little too close to home, because Branden himself believes in what Rand regards as a form of mysticism, namely extra-sensory perception or what he calls "anomalous perception." Rand defines "mysticism" as "the acceptance of allegations without evidence or proof, either apart from or against the evidence of one's senses and one's reason." ("Faith, and Force: The Destroyers of the Modern World," reprinted in Philosophy: Who Needs It, p. 75), According to this definition, ESP (or AP) is a form of mysticism, because it repudiates sensory evidence as a prerequisite of knowledge.

Branden continues, "Reason is at once a faculty and a process of identifying and integrating the data present or given in awareness. Reason means integration in accordance with the law of noncontradiction. If you think of it in these terms—as a process of noncontradictory integration—it’s difficult to imagine how anyone could be opposed to it."

It's more than that. As Rand defined it, "Reason is the faculty that identifies and integrates the material provided by man's senses." In other words, Reason is the faculty that identifies and integrates sensory evidence.

Branden continues, "Here is the problem: There is a difference between reason as a process and what any person or any group of people, at any time in history, may regard as 'the reasonable.' This is a distinction that very few people are able to keep clear. We all exist in history, not just in some timeless vacuum, and probably none of us can entirely escape contemporary notions of 'the reasonable.' It’s always important to remember that reason or rationality, on the one hand, and what people may regard as 'the reasonable,' on the other hand, don’t mean the same thing."

True, Religionists, paranormalists and supernaturalists think they're being "reasonable" when they claim non-sensory knowledge.

Branden concludes, "The consequence of failing to make this distinction, and this is markedly apparent in the case of Ayn Rand, is that if someone disagrees with your notion of 'the reasonable,' it can feel very appropriate to accuse him or her of being 'irrational' or 'against reason.'"

True again. I've actually had Randroids (on Diana Hsieh's blog) accuse me of betraying reason, simply because I said something they disagreed with--something they thought was unreasonable. But Randroids are not Rand; they're little more than a bunch of blind, dogmatic followers, who give Objectivism a bad name.

Branden writes, "If you read her books, or her essays in The Objectivist, or if you listen to her lectures, you will notice with what frequency and ease she branded any viewpoint she did not share as not merely mistaken but 'irrational' or 'mystical.'"

Here I wonder if Branden is being entirely fair to Rand. Some examples would help, otherwise I would need to go back and review all of the material from The Objectivist and her lectures in order to see if what he says is true. But it was not my impression that, with the exception of supernaturalists and the like, Rand ever accused anyone of being mystical--unless, of course, she qualified it as she did with her "mystics of muscle" designation of Attila in For The New Intellectual. As for the appellation "irrational," I think there is much in contemporary culture to warrant that characterization. I don't think Rand was using the term "irrational" simply as a synonym for whatever she disagreed with.

Branden adds, "In other words, anything that challenged her particular model of reality was not merely wrong but 'irrational' and 'mystical'—to say nothing, of course, of its being 'evil,' another word she loved to use with extraordinary frequency."

What does he mean by "her particular model of reality"? I'd say that Rand's "model of reality"--that reality exists independently of us and that we can know it by means of reason applied to the evidence of our senses--is so obviously true that those who dissent from it are to that extent either irrational or mystical. If these terms have any meaning at all, then they must have some application!

Branden wrote, "No doubt every thinker has to be understood, at least in part, in terms of what the thinker is reacting against, that is, the historical context in which the thinker’s work begins. Ayn Rand was born in Russia: a mystical country in the very worst sense of the word, a country that never really passed through the Age of Reason or the Enlightenment in the way that Western Europe did. Ayn Rand herself was not only a relentless rationalist, she was profoundly secular, profoundly in love with this world, in a way that I personally can only applaud. Yet the problem is that she became very quick on the draw in response to anything that even had the superficial appearance of irrationalism, by which I mean, of anything that did not fit her particular understanding of 'the reasonable.'"

Perhaps that was true in certain cases, but I'd say that a lot of what Rand dubbed irrationalist deserved that characterization.

He continued, "With regard to science, this led to an odd kind of scientific conservatism, a suspicion of novelty, an indifference—this is only a slight exaggeration—to anything more recent than the work of Sir Isaac Newton. I remember being astonished to hear her say one day, 'After all, the theory of evolution is only a hypothesis.' I asked her, 'You mean you seriously doubt that more complex life forms—including humans—evolved from less complex life forms?' She shrugged and responded, 'I’m really not prepared to say,' or words to that effect. I do not mean to imply that she wanted to substitute for the theory of evolution the religious belief that we are all God’s creation; but there was definitely something about the concept of evolution that made her uncomfortable."

That does sound a little odd, but it makes more sense than Branden's sympathies for the paranormal. If the issue is respect for responsible, well-established science, then I'd say, look who's talking! One might ask him analogously, "You mean you seriously believe that we can apprehend reality through some means other than the five senses?"

He continues, "Like many other people, she was enormously opposed to any consideration of the validity of telepathy, ESP, or other psi phenomenon. [Hello!] The evidence that was accumulating to suggest that there was something here at least worthy of serious scientific study did not interest her; she did not feel any obligation to look into the subject; she was convinced it was all a fraud. It did not fit her model of reality. When an astronaut attempted during a flight to the moon to conduct a telepathic experiment, she commented on the effort with scorn—even the attempt to explore the subject was contemptible in her opinion. Now I have no wish to argue, in this context, for or against the reality of nonordinary forms of awareness or any other related phenomenon. That is not my point. My point is the extent to which she had a closed mind on the subject, with no interest in discovering for herself why so many distinguished scientists had become convinced that such matters are eminently worthy of study."

"So many distinguished scientists." Ah, yes--like all those "distinguished scientists" who believe that global warming is a man-made contrivance and that a Kyoto accord is the only answer. But assuming that these "distinguished scientists" earned their distinction through responsible scientific inquiry, which relies on sensory evidence and rational proof, does that mean that they are similarly qualified to speak on the paranormal or supernatural? For example, does the fact that these scientists happen also to believe in religious dogma qualify it as "eminently worthy of study"? I don't think so.

Branden continues, "Another example—less controversial—involves hypnosis. I became interested in hypnosis in 1960. I began reading books on the subject and mastering the basic principles of the art. Now this generated a problem because on the one hand Ayn Rand knew, or believed she knew, that hypnosis was a fraud with no basis in reality; on the other hand, in 1960 Nathaniel Branden was the closest thing on earth to John Galt. And John Galt could hardly be dabbling in irrationalism. So this produced some very curious conversations between us. She was not yet prepared, as she was later, to announce that I was crazy, corrupt, and depraved."

"Crazy, corrupt and depraved"? Were those her words? Of course, we'll never know, just as we'll never know whether in fact Rand actually held these views. Even assuming that she did, it would help to know whether they were expressed before or after the break. Of course, Branden does not tell us.

He continues, "At the same time, she firmly believed that hypnosis was irrational nonsense. I persevered in my studies and learned that the human mind was capable of all kinds of processes beyond what I had previously believed. My efforts to reach Ayn on this subject were generally futile and I soon abandoned the attempt. And to tell the truth, during the time I was still with her, I lost some of my enthusiasm for hypnosis. I regained it after our break and that is when my serious experimenting in that field began and the real growth of my understanding of the possibilities of working with altered states of consciousness.

"I could give many more examples of how Ayn Rand’s particular view of 'the reasonable' became intellectually restrictive. Instead, to those of you who are her admirers, I will simply say: Do not be in a hurry to dismiss observations or data as false, irrational, or 'mystical,' because they do not easily fit into your current model of reality. It may be the case that you need to expand your model. One of the functions of reason is to alert us to just such a possibility."

Translation: "Do not be in a hurry to dismiss 'observations' of paranormal data as false, irrational or mystical, because they do not fit into your current model of reality." And what model might that be? Oh, you mean the one which says that in order to know something, you have to possess a means of knowledge? Or the one which says that in order to be aware of something, you must be aware of it in some particular form? Or the one which says that existence is identity and that consciousness is identification? Right, I think I see the point. I always thought that model was too "intellectually restrictive." How I hate being restricted by the laws of identity and causality. I think it's time to "expand" my model. Don't you? [g]

Branden continues, "It would have been wonderful, given how much many of us respected and admired Ayn Rand, if she had encouraged us to develop a more open-minded attitude and to be less attached to a model of reality that might be in need of revision."

Oh, please!

"But that was not her way. Quite the contrary. Other people’s model of reality might be in need of revision. Never hers. Not in any fundamental sense."

Not in any fundamental sense? What's that supposed to mean? If anything is in need of expansion or revision, it is most emphatically not Objectivism's fundamentals. If Branden didn't learn that in all his years with Rand, then what can he be said to have learned?!

He sums up: "Reason, she was convinced, had established that for all time. In encouraging among her followers the belief that she enjoyed a monopoly on reason and the rational, she created for herself a very special kind of power, the power to fling anyone who disagreed with her about anything into the abyss of 'the irrational'—and that was a place we were all naturally eager to avoid."

Not any more, evidently. And what does it mean to accuse Rand of "enjoying a monopoly on reason and the rational"? She did not claim to be the only one who agreed with her philosophy, which is what it would mean for her to hold a "monopoly" on reason and the rational. But if by "monopoly" Branden means that she believed her view of reason and the rational to be correct and those who disagreed with her incorrect, then that's true of anyone who holds firm ideas.

In sum, there may be some legitimate points that Branden raises in the "hazards" portion of his talk, but he also does Rand and Objectivism a disservice in what he chooses to criticize. Moreover, this is not a criticism that one would expect from someone who is as familiar with Rand's philosophy as he was. I would have expected this kind of critique from someone with a more superficial understanding of Objectivism. In a way, it's a little puzzling to hear it coming from Branden, but perhaps understandable from someone who bears as much ill-will towards her as he does.

- Bill


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Post 1

Thursday, December 1, 2005 - 6:17pmSanction this postReply
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Bill,

Maybe we can agree on something, at least with regards to this article.  Less than 2 months ago I posted the following paragraph from the article on NB's Yahoo list:

Like many other people, she was enormously opposed to any consideration of the possible validity of telepathy, ESP, or other psi phenomenon. The evidence that was accumulating to suggest that there was something here at least worthy of serious scientific study did not interest her; she did not feel any obligation to look into the subject; she was convinced it was all a fraud. It did not fit her model of reality. When an astronaut attempted during a flight to the moon to conduct a telepathic experiment, she commented on the effort with scorn—even the attempt to explore the subject was contemptible in her opinion. Now I have no wish to argue, in this context, for or against the reality of nonordinary forms of awareness or any other related phenomenon. That is not my point. My point is the extent to which she had a closed mind on the subject, with no interest in discovering for herself why so many distinguished scientists had become convinced that such matters are eminently worthy of study.


To summarize briefly, I said that the whole "fit her model of reality" bit was a rather Rationalist thing to say, especially in light of her philosophy.  And considering how closely connected he was with AR and her philosophy, it was even more puzzling. Quoting the old saying, I said that one should not be so open-minded that one's brain falls out.  And giving these "topics" any serious scientific consideration means relying on the evidence of the senses, the very thing these mystics find "inadequate".  Furthermore, it is bad enough that the government arrogates to itself many of the scientific research fields, but for the purposes of exploring mystical nonsense?  No doubt much of her scorn was direct at this.

NB's response?  That if I wanted to hold a "serious opinion" on the subject (anomalous perception, that is) I need to do some "serious homework".  Also, an insinuation that I would not be living one of the core Objectivist  principles of "respect for facts" if I did not "seriously" look at the claims by sundry ESP advocates.  Very interesting response, to say the least.

Regards,
Michael


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Thursday, December 1, 2005 - 8:39pmSanction this postReply
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Bill,

What Nathaniel Branden reports about Ayn Rand and evolution must have taken place back when he was in his teens. By the time Ayn Rand served as Harry Binswanger's de-facto second dissertation advisor, she apparently understood evolution well enough to approve of Binswanger's argument for grounding teleology in evolution.

NB is a bullshit artist, and has been for a long time. Why believe anything he writes about Rand?


(Edited by Adam Reed
on 12/01, 8:46pm)


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Post 3

Friday, December 2, 2005 - 10:42amSanction this postReply
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I don't think he harbors any ill will towards Ayn Rand at all. My experience with him has been that he is in a completely different place, he stays incredibly active and busy with his writing, consulting, therapy, lecturing, research, and so on. And, over and over he has written counteless positive things about Ayn Rand. This all seems nitpicky to me, like most of the AR-Branden dialogue.

The things about mysticism, to me, result from the fact that mysticism is used as a very broad catch-all in Objectivism, and because of that, it is not all that useful a term.

It thoroughly cracks me up when I've been seeing these things lately where NB is being accused of being a "mystic," perhaps by innuendo. This is silliness beyond belief. The man has clearly stated his views on mysticism, particularly in The Art of Living Consciously. And, he talks about it in reference to his conversations with Ken Wilber, who he clearly admires, but points out that the main difference between the two of them is that Wilber is a mystic, and Branden is not.


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Friday, December 2, 2005 - 11:59amSanction this postReply
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Rich,

I'm afraid the "I'm not a mystic" line does not quite cut it.  If he indeed does endorse ESP, psi, or the like, in my book that qualifies as being a mystic.  Remember when I brought this up on his list?  His only response was "do your homework". 

Why does he so steadfastly refuse to address the topic?  He could easily vindicate himself against any claims that his beliefs constitute mysticism by defining his terms and giving his line of reasoning.  That is precisely why I brought it up on his list.  Instead he makes vague statements about "exploring" or "investigating" the topic, which appear to be a subtle endorsement of these beliefs.  At this point, I have come to the conclusion that these subtle statements are a cover because if he addresses the topic explicitly, the cat is out of the bag and the game is over.

Regards,
Michael


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Friday, December 2, 2005 - 12:35pmSanction this postReply
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I am in agreement with Michael Moeller.  Nathaniel Branden does seem to have some ideas and thinly veiled beliefs that smell of mysticism though I certainly wouldn't say that he regularly peddles mysticism and he has made the case against it in recent books.  His problem is not that he doesn't understand epistemological guidelines it is that he doesn't always make it a point of following them properly when there is an unfounded hypothesis that he believes in.  In these cases he dances around knowing that if he makes a positive assertion as to what he really thinks his Objectivist readers and enemies will have ammo to fire at him.

The fact is that he has always been a speculator and brainstormer and because he is very good at this he does come up with some very good ideas and formulations.  His writing,while uneven is, in certain cases incredibly well done. What seperates a very good thinker like Branden from a brilliant thinker like Rand is that while she was also a great brainstormer and creative thinker she was also ridgidly systematic in her thinking.  One can read an essay written by Rand and connect her assertions to those made in other essays and to her overall philosophy.   Branden has to be read with a far more critical and wary eye.  You might find one of his formulations to be brilliant while on the next page his assertions amount to nothing more then touchy feely pop psychology. 

 - Jason


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Friday, December 2, 2005 - 12:55pmSanction this postReply
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Yes, I remember all of that over there. It sounds like you want him to walk you through it. But, again, I think he's said the bulk of what he has to say about this, in one place or another.

I can only make inferences, and talk about how I see it.

I understand what he's talking about in terms of things being quickly dismissed as mysticism. Mysticism is a trigger word with Objectivists. It is widely inclusive, as I have said before, to the point of being useless outside of knee jerk. Evidence of the senses? That is a large topic right there, and there are a lot of things we still don't know about sensory perception. Consider the recent work that is revealing things about the "empathy" component in the brain. There are things that science has not revealed yet. The way I see it, those things are dismissed as "mystical" when they may simply be things that aren't yet fully discovered. There has always been interest in psi phenomenon- consider the government work that was done for years in the area of remote viewing. They didn't just beat it off as mystical- they wanted to see if they could figure out how it works, and use it for something. The knee jerk keeps you from accepting the possibility of a possibility. Sometimes, this is not real pragmatic. Branden, for instance, got very involved in energy psychology. He did so because he saw positive results happening. But, see, that would get nailed as mysticism, because it's odd, it's kind of intangible on the surface, it involves chakra points, you know, the kind of things that rile up Objectivists. Never mind that it's been able to be used to cure deep seated traumas that were resistant to years of traditional cognitive therapy, etc. I think NB stays on the edge of things, and he keeps his mind open enough to find anything that seems to be working, things that will serve his purposes. Hypnosis was the same way. A lot of people used to (some still do) think that is nothing more than Svengali-style mumbo-jumbo. Yet, medical hypnosis is one of many tools in the therapists bag, because sometimes it helps people. Yet, there was Ayn Rand criticizing it. If he had listened to her, he would not have been able to use hypnosis to help his clients. Ergo, not everything Ayn Rand said about things is fucking chapter and verse- she had limitations, which is how it works. There was integration and synthesis work left to be done. Some people involved in Objectivism accept that, others do not. I think it limits them. I think it's pretty odd how haenky some of them get when you talk about Objectivism not addressing cosmology.

And maybe he knows what he's talking about when he says some things didn't fit AR's world-view. I get that, don't you? People have world views, and within those lie limitations. Within the tiers of consciousness lie limitations. I do believe that Objectivism, while at the higher end of human evolution, does not guarantee that a person will move to a higher tier of consciousness. In fact, it can stop you from going there. The development of philosophy , of consciouisness,does not stop with Ayn Rand. I think it is fair to say that Objectivism can make it real difficult for people to continue to integrate. I think Branden has known that for quite a while. I also think he knows that a lot of this kind of work has to be done by the individual- it is not about explaining it into someone. He will, on occasion, point at things. For instance, I had a couple of questions about things I am running into as I study Ken Wilber, and Branden answered them sufficiently. The bottom line was that I had to keep studying what I was studying- I was asking questions that I didn't need to ask- what I needed to do was keep going. Maybe that was what he was trying to tell you. Or, maybe he's sick of answering questions that he feels he's answered. He's not on trial, there's no onus.

(Edited by Rich Engle on 12/02, 1:00pm)


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Post 7

Friday, December 2, 2005 - 1:12pmSanction this postReply
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Jason,

NB is not only a writer but a practicing psychologist. The human mind is undoubtedly the most complicated thing that we know of in the universe. I think Nathaniel has been baffled in his career by the seemingly unexplainable, "mystical", successes that a few of his peers have achieved in the treatment of people with various psychological problems. I do not think that he himself believes in "mystical" explanations but is simply at a loss in some cases to explain what he has personally seen in the realm of human psychology. I think that's what he means by "Do your homework". Of course, I have a lot of goodwill towards NB because I have benefitted from his therapy.

My career is troubleshooting electronic circuits and systems. Sometimes I am baffled by the behaviour of these systems and I am sure they are many [MANY] orders of magnitude simpler than the human psyche. Some books written about electronics include "The Art of" and "Black Magic.." but that doesn't mean anyone really believes there is any magic. Just that it's kinda complicated sometimes.

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Friday, December 2, 2005 - 1:54pmSanction this postReply
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Rich writes:
But, again, I think he's said the bulk of what he has to say about this, in one place or another.
Really Rich?  Where *exactly* has he spoken extensively about ESP, psi, or "anomalous perception"?  I do not remember 1 article laying out any definitions or giving any reasoning.  If you have one, could you tell me where it is please?

BTW, mysticism does have a specific meaning and it is not just some "trigger word"--it means acceptance of beliefs without evidence or proof.  This means via the evidence of the senses and one's reason.  The advocates ESP, psi, and the like are trying to make claims to knowledge through undefinable and/or non-rational means.  You can dress it up any way you want, that is mysticism.  Yes, you can lump energy psychology in there as well.

Here's a question for you, Rich.  All of these people who claim these new modalities of perception, where is their efficacy in reality?  Why are these people not on the cutting edge of medicine, scientific research, business, etc.? One would think their "higher tier of consciousness" would translate to great achievements, no?  Why, when it comes down to it, do their claims always reduce to: "Well, it works for me!!"? Yeah, all of the "faith-healers" make that same claim.

Yes, Rich, I get it that it did not fit AR's worldview, and good for her!!!  If non-rational claims to knowledge are in your worldview, then it probably needs a revision.  I can accept that NB does not want to talk about it, but I am not going to brush aside his implicit endorsement of ESP, psi, etc. as if it is no big deal.  It is a big deal.  I know you have a great loyalty to him and I can respect that, but you need to recognize what is and is NOT science.  And it hasn't changed what I regard in his work as brilliant, but if indeed he has come to believe in ESP, then I think that is the end of the line for him, intellectually speaking.

Regards,
Michael


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Friday, December 2, 2005 - 3:54pmSanction this postReply
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I think in this case Rand was right for the wrong reasons. A thing like extrasensory perception is not a priori impossible, and it wouldn't contradict the essentials of Objectivism, as long as we don't invoke a "supernatural" explanation (i.e. an explanation outside the realm of science, in particular physics). There is no fundamental philosophical argument (Objectivist or otherwise) that forbids the possibility of gaining knowledge via other channels than the known senses. It could be that our knowledge of the physics and the physiology of the human body is just not advanced enough to detect the mechanism to make that possible. Think what would happen if we could travel back in time a few centuries with some radio apparatus. The greatest scientists at that time would be completely baffled at a demonstration of our talking at a distance, it would look like pure magic (as Arthur C. Clarke has pointed out). In the same way there is no a priori reason to exclude the possibility that in humans some mechanism is at work that we still don't know and don't understand, but the effects of which we can observe.

That said, Rand was right however to dismiss that possibility, but not for the reasons she gave. The scientific evidence is now overwhelming that there is no such hidden mechanism. Some 100 - 150 years ago there might have been some reason to consider the possibility of the reality of such phenomena and it wouldn't have been unscientific to do research on that subject. But the results of all that research during the past 150 years have been completely zero. The problem is that many people just have no idea how completely hopeless the situation for the paranormalists is. There are many articles, books and communications in the media that suggest otherwise, and that might lead the unwary to believe that there "is something in it". I know from experience, because when I was young I was also a "believer". The reason was that everything I read about the subject suggested that the reality of such phenomena was proved beyond any doubt, and some of the writers were highly esteemed scientists and professors. Now I must emphasize that I never believed in any "supernatural" explanations, to me it seemed there was something very interesting to discover, which would have a large impact on physical theories. It was only later that I discovered the "skeptical" literature about the subject, and that made the scales fall from my eyes. The so-called "rigorous" experiments that yielded positive results turned out to be incredibly sloppy and badly designed, and as soon as an experiment was tightly controlled all effects disappeared like snow in the sun. Worse, the results of some of the then famous experiments turned out te be the result of fraud (like the Soal-Shackleton experiment, once the "definite proof"). It is well known that James Randi will pay 1 million dollars to the person who can under controlled conditions demonstrate the reality of a paranormal phenomenon, and that while many have tried, no one has succeeded so far, and no one will succeed as long as Randi is as sharp as he is now (there is always the risk of diminishing mental abilities with increasing age, but perhaps Randi has foreseen that possibility and taken measures to counter it).

Now Branden is probably a fine philosopher and a good psychotherapist, but he is a lousy scientist. Although he denies being a mystic, there is enough evidence that he believes in the reality of at least some paranormal phenomena (perhaps by witnessing some things he can't explain). Further he seems to think that the fact that a particular form of psychotherapy is effective is proof that the theory behind that form of psychotherapy is correct. He just has no notion of what scientific proof implies, and therefore he endorses uncritically such completely crazy theories like "energy" therapy and TFT, because they seem to work.

As a philosopher Branden was right about the comment on Rand's dismissal of ESP (there is no a priori philosophical reason to dismiss it, as Rand did), but as a scientist he was quite wrong (there is enough reason to dismiss it out of hand for scientific reasons).


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Post 10

Friday, December 2, 2005 - 4:38pmSanction this postReply
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I do not understand the claim that belief in ESP
repudiates sensory perception as a means of knowledge.
It only claims there are other means of perception
besides the ones commonly known.

Branden was educated in the first half of the 20th
century when many scientists believed that there was
overwhelming empirical evidence of telepathic ability
in some persons. I don't think they thought there was
anything supernatural about it. Of course, most of
those who believed this were not among those who
were investigating it, and simply trusted them too
much. Remember that there was a time when any
mention of Duke University caused most people to
think the subject was ESP research.

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Friday, December 2, 2005 - 7:09pmSanction this postReply
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Dr. Hardy-

PhD or M.D.?

I for one do not think that evidence for or proof of ESP would repudiate any tenets of objectivism, but until there is either evidence for or proof of ESP, the idea is nothing but wishful thinking that smacks the face of objective reality, and this DOES go against the tenets of objectivism.

Also, who were these "many scientists" in the 20th century who believed that there was "overwhelming evidence of telepathic ability"?

Yes, once Duke was associated with ESP, and now it is associated with POMO nonsense.  Seems Duke has quite a history of tangling itself up in nonsense.


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Friday, December 2, 2005 - 10:25pmSanction this postReply
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Adam writes:

> What Nathaniel Branden reports about Ayn Rand and evolution
> must have taken place back when he was in his teens. By the
> time Ayn Rand served as Harry Binswanger's de-facto second
> dissertation advisor, she apparently understood evolution
> well enough to approve of Binswanger's argument for
> grounding teleology in evolution.


How well would you say is "well enough," Adam? And how well
would you say Harry Binswanger understands the theory of
evolution? He does refer to it numerous times in his
monograph, *The Biological Basis of Teleological Concepts*
(which he describes as "an edited version" of the dissertation).
But it did seem to me when I read that monograph about ten
years ago that his theory is much more Aristotelean than
Darwinian. (Rereading the monograph is on my short
list of projects; I'm speaking here from rather hazy
memory of the details.)

Regarding the issue of how well Ayn Rand understood
the theory of evolution at the time Harry was writing the
thesis, I'd say that she couldn't have understood it well --
if her own words written in the year Harry completed
the thesis are indicative.

Harry says in the Preface to the book-form version
(copyright 1976, 1990) that the dissertation
"was written from 1969 through 1973."

Here is Ayn Rand speaking in the *The Ayn Rand Letter,*
Vol. II, No. 17, May 21, 1973, in an article titled
"The Missing Link: The anti-conceptual mentality of
tribalism":

"I am not a student of the theory of evolution and, therefore,
I am neither its supporter nor its opponent. But a certain
hypothesis has haunted me for years; I want to stress that
it is only a hypothesis. There is an enormous breach of
continuity between man and all the other living species.
The difference lies in the nature of man's consciousness,
in its distinctive characteristic: his conceptual faculty.
It is as if, after aeons of physiological development,
the evolutionary process altered its course, and the
higher stages of development focused primarily on
the consciousness of living species, not their bodies.
But the development of a man's consciousness is volitional,
no matter what the innate degree of his intelligence, *he*
must develop it, *he* must learn how to use it, *he* must
become a human being by choice. What if he does not
choose to? Then he becomes a transitional phenomenon -
a desperate creature that struggles frantically against
his own nature, longing for the effortless 'safety'
of an animal's consciousness, which he cannot recapture,
and rebelling against a human consciousness, which he
is afraid to achieve.

"For years, scientists have been looking for a
'missing link' between man and animals. Perhaps that
missing link is the anti-conceptual mentality."

[end AR quote]

I read that when it first appeared -- and felt squirms
of embarrassment for her. I can only suppose that she
was serious in proposing this "hypothesis." (She wasn't
prone to being facetious.) But...I wouldn't say that
the comment shows understanding of the theory of evolution.

Ellen S.


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Post 13

Friday, December 2, 2005 - 10:26pmSanction this postReply
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Although I agree with "Calopteryx Splendens" that scientific
method isn't Nathaniel Branden's strong point, I'd like to
enter a corrective to this comment:

"...he seems to think that the fact that a particular form
of psychotherapy is effective is proof that the theory behind
that form of psychotherapy is correct. He just has no notion
of what scientific proof implies, and therefore he endorses
uncritically such completely crazy theories like "energy"
therapy and TFT, because they seem to work." [Calopteryx
Splendens]

Based on a lengthy phone conversation I had with him
about the theory and practice of the various "energy"
techniques as well as on things he's said in private
emails, I'd say that he doesn't endorse the theories
uncritically, or take the effectiveness of the therapies
as proof of the theories. He isn't *that* naive about
issues of scientific procedure.

Ellen S.

PS: Hello, Dr. Hardy ;-)



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Post 14

Friday, December 2, 2005 - 11:29pmSanction this postReply
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Ellen,

Among his other virtues, from what I can see, Mr. Branden apparently does not hate nearly as much as he is hated.

Also, I have yet see him distort the ideas of others like what is usually falsely attributed to him.

Michael


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Friday, December 2, 2005 - 11:50pmSanction this postReply
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Interesting, Michael, that you should say that about his not hating. I was thinking earlier tonight, after reading a remark Rich made, about Nathaniel's current mental frame, the "place" he's gotten to in his development. I doubt that he's even been noticing much of the commotion going on (re the Valliant book, etc.) or feeling any concern about it. The feeling I pick up from these days is one of being past all that.

Ellen

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Friday, December 2, 2005 - 11:59pmSanction this postReply
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Ellen,

Ayn Rand did retrogress quite a bit in her understanding of biology, beginning when she lost contact with Robert Efron.
But that was after the big break with Branden. Efron considered Rand's understanding of biology, including evolution, to be more than adequate (if my memory of a conversation with him in the late 60s is correct.) Branden is apparently talking about a much earlier time.

Binswanger's dissertation is not the only case in point. Rand approved Robert Efron's review of Magda Arnold's work, and published the review in The Objectivist - hardly something she would have done if she harbored doubts about evolution at the time.



Post 17

Saturday, December 3, 2005 - 9:09amSanction this postReply
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Michael,

I want to stay on point and not go too far into your reply regarding my comments on the word mysticism, I've written a few things about it elsewhere. My short answer is that there is often no deeper understanding of it than that definition, which also serves as a principle. The understanding of mysticism as experience is somewhere that not too many Objectivists are likely to go. Something like William James is not on the coffee table, and probably not on the shelf, either. It is not worthy.

Also, to be clear, I'm really not interested in minutely discussing specific phenomena that are classed as mystical nonsense. But, here and there...

Calopteryx : therefore he endorses uncritically such completely crazy theories like "energy" therapy and TFT, because they seem to work.

I second the opinion that he is just not a rubber-stamp kind of guy. One of the things that got him interested in TFT were books by George Pratt, and Peter Lambrou like Instant Emotional Healing. These are very interesting books, and the authors didn't exactly fall off the turnip truck. TFT has been beneficial as an additional tool for therapists who learn the TFT protocols, and so on. It's fairly dense stuff, I know that Walter Foddis has a good way of explaining it to people but I haven't talked to him in a good while.

The underlying issues that drive the thread are what I am more interested in. I think those circle around NB's statement of:

I will only state for the record that I am not prepared to say, as Rand was, that anyone who might describe him- or herself as a 'mystic' is to be dismissed as a crackpot or a charlatan."


rde

(Edited by Rich Engle on 12/03, 9:11am)


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Saturday, December 3, 2005 - 10:09amSanction this postReply
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Calopteryx writes:
(there is no a priori philosophical reason to dismiss it, as Rand did)
Yes, there is, its called the Law of Identity.  Anything that exists has a specific nature, including one's sense perception and reasoning faculty.  And anything that claims knowledge by undefinable means violates this.  Of course, most mystics will not say it is "undefinable", they will call it "intuition" or "anomalous perception" or "revelation", but at bottom that is what it is.

But say we grant them their wish and it is knowledge by some specific means, the question is:  how does it translate to efficacy in reality?  What are the great achievements that are to come of this "higher" level of consciousness?  Certainly I can demonstrate to the blind man my "superior" sense of sight, what can they demonstrate?  Spoon bending?

Personally, if somebody wants to "explore" these topics they can knock themselves out with it.  But, as somebody who works in science and knows the ruthless demands of building something from the ground-up, the idea that ESP, psi, etc. is anywhere near the realm of science and should be implemented as if it is, amounts to a goddamn insult to scientific inquiry.

Rich,
Fair enough.

Regards,
Michael


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Post 19

Saturday, December 3, 2005 - 10:35amSanction this postReply
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Michael,
Yes, there is, its called the Law of Identity. Anything that exists has a specific nature, including one's sense perception and reasoning faculty. And anything that claims knowledge by undefinable means violates this.
You're presupposing that we already know everything about the nature of the thing. I understood Cal.'s post to be saying that early investigations into ESP were an exploration of the nature of man's knowledge gathering abilities. Once we didn't find scientific evidence to back it up, yeah, it's bunk. But hindsight is 20-20 and we shouldn't say that we shouldn't have ever investigated it. Closing off certain areas of investigation is no better than saying that certain areas of knowledge are beyond our reach.

Sarah

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