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Post 20

Monday, March 26, 2007 - 1:31pmSanction this postReply
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I do remember seeing a case tracked on a major television network news show a few years ago in which a husband refused to pay support for his wife's lovers child and went to jail for it.  The courts upheld the judgment since the husband had unwittingly built a relationship with this child thinking it was his own.  It amounted to an involuntary adoption.

Can anyone point us to the documentation of that case?


Post 21

Monday, March 26, 2007 - 1:34pmSanction this postReply
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The houseboat idea is great - had /have that dream myself...... only problem is the difficulty in finding mooring and/or not overly priced mooring.... marinas are becoming less and less available due to demand for coastal development... at least is that way in Florida.....

Post 22

Monday, March 26, 2007 - 7:59pmSanction this postReply
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Steve:  Sorry, it's real.  As I said the local paper, the Orange County Register has run stories on this issue.  The paternity test is only relevant if you have challenged the claim within the statuatory period allowed for doing so.  Once that has elapsed, you could be the father of a kangaroo as far as the court is concerned.  Figure a quarter of your life down the drain.  I've contemplated the idea of becoming a free-lance hit-man just to deal with this kind of issue, where the legal system is on the side of the crooks....
(Edited by Phil Osborn on 3/26, 8:21pm)


Post 23

Monday, March 26, 2007 - 8:04pmSanction this postReply
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How far have they tried fighting it thru the courts?


Post 24

Monday, March 26, 2007 - 8:38pmSanction this postReply
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Argh...  I did an edit of  my preceding post and it disappeared, even tho it says I edited it...

Here: http://www.glennsacks.com/california_governor_davis.htm

OK.  This is just one of the stories that appeared in the Pulitzer Prize winning OC Register on the issue.  1.5 million men paying for kids not related to them?  That sounds high, but it's possible. 

My take: in our modern society, the woman is always totally responsible for the child.  Period.  She made the choice.  There were other choices.  Unless she has a signed contract with someone else - man, woman, or whatever - to provide support for a child as a joint venture, in which the other party gets something of substance in return, she is 100%, solely, totally and completely responsible.

So, any attempt to force a man to pay for an unwanted child is pure thievery and effectively slavery when the state steps in and takes his income.

There is a HUGE market in children.  Children are a valuable commodity.  Of course, you can't "own" another human being, which means that you can't "sell" another human being either.  However, as the mother, and as father, if there is an explicit or understood contract, you DO have rights to the care and upbringing of the child that you paid for with your money, time and PAIN, in the case of a woman. And those rights are transferable.  And it is nobody else's business, unless they have reason to believe that the child is being abused or something similar.

When I came to Ca in '76, one of my employers tried to get me to try to convince my just-18 roommate to have a baby for he and his wife, who were totally infertile.  He was willing to go $20,000, no strings.  My roomie was interested, but then he lost his position and the offer disappeared. 

The biggest roadblock to this of course is the State, which takes the perfectly reasonable position that you can't sell a person.  True.  But that isn't what is taking place.  You're only selling the right to bring up the child and act as its parents.  However, the State view is implicitly that the parent is primarily responsible for the child, and that this responsibility for raising the child is non-transferable, except via its own processes and institutions.  Never mind that the foster care and adoption systems of the State have been shown repeatedly to be profoundly susceptible to every variety of corruption and irresponsibility.

I say that the parents gave the child a great gift, LIFE.  If they later decide to abandon the child, because they can't afford him or her, or the kid turns totally evil, or whatever, that is their absolute right, altho they would be truly stupid in most cases to do so, given the market demand for children by childless couples.


Post 25

Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:00pmSanction this postReply
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What is owned is the guardianship - what is sold is the guardianship - NOT the person..... never could understand why this is so hard to grasp by so many...

Post 26

Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 2:59amSanction this postReply
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Robert, I've lived aboard sailboats before. 

About a year and a half in Southern California - Marina del Ray.  Then for about 6 months in Northern Europe - had it shipped to Forida and sold it.  Then for about a year and a half first in England, then the Canaries, then the Caribean, Bahamas, and finally sold it in Annapolis.  My last boat I had for a little less than a year.  Bought it near Corpus Christie and then sold it in Biloxie just before Katrina rolled through.

I love it.  I dream of a houseboat as well and I think about the vast inland waterways with their rivers and lakes - like the Cumberland in Tennesse (or is that Kentucky?).  And down to the Gulf for winters.  I suspect that moorings are still cheap and plentiful there.   In Biloxi I was paying about $115 month including electricity and water - tied up behind a Casino with a fantastic view of the Gulf, the Biloxi Bay bridge, and Deer Island.  The porpoise came into the sound and then into the marina and right up next to the back of my boat every few days or so and the fellow next to me would throw them fish.


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