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Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 1:19pmSanction this postReply
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Can someone, maybe Phil O., please explain the raging argument over Net Neutrality?  I've lost the link (it was on crooksandliars.com), but apparently the FTC has decided to can net neutrality, which has a bunch of people screaming "fascism!," and "free speech is dead!"

I know its crap, I just don't know why its crap.

Dumbed down would be extremely appreciated.  I just don't get it at all.



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Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 1:49pmSanction this postReply
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Here I found an Objectivist take on the matter:

http://www.rationalmind.net/2006/06/08/stop-net-neutrality-now/

I also found this:

http://forum.objectivismonline.net/index.php?showtopic=9715

Apparently it amounts to regulations attempting to fix a "problem" that does not exist yet puts liberty at risk.


Post 2

Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 6:40pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you so much, Luke!

The second link you provided was excellent and also contained a link to a fantastic, extremely well written  article by Tim Swanson of the von Mises Institute. That piece alone cleared up my every question.

The Swanson article is a year old, yet timeless.   Excerpt:

Unfortunately, many proponents of net neutrality miss the forest for the trees when promoting their nationalization of network pipelines.[8] [9] The real recipe for reform is not yet another round of reregulation or confiscation of private property,[10] rather it is the abolition of State machinations involved in the telecom industry as a whole.

Many users mistakenly believe that the current radio spectrum and telecom regime is the product of the free-market. It is not. The FCC did not create the radio spectrum nor does it have some homesteading claim to the near-infinitesimal ranges found within it. It is, simply, a bureaucratic sophistry, which oddly enough believes it can distribute something it does not own.
[11]

 

(Edited by Teresa Summerlee Isanhart on 7/07, 6:43pm)


Post 3

Sunday, July 8, 2007 - 10:37amSanction this postReply
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The FCC did not create the radio spectrum nor does it have some homesteading claim to the near-infinitesimal ranges found within it. It is, simply, a bureaucratic sophistry, which oddly enough believes it can distribute something it does not own
 
In all fairness, they've created a usable resource out of what would otherwise be unusable, going back to the days before spread spectrum.

Unlike fibre, the open spectrum has limited usable real estate, because of water vapor, etc.   The atmosphere is opaque to much more than it is transparent to.    In terms of usable bandwidth, there is some unGodly unimaginable ratio between the entire open atmosphere and  a single fibre channel, like 35 billion to 1, because a fibre is 'clean.'   It is only through relatively recent technology, spread spectrum, that the issue that originally led to the creation of the FCC has become less important than it once was for the open spectrum.   The totally open market you describe would require everything to be converted to spread spectrum(or something like it, where every in channel signal is noise to every other in channel signal except its own, because of Walsh encoding or some other bit of cleverness.)

We can see what human systems that rely on self regulation look like.   Bangladesh's streets have such a system.   There is only one rule, and that rule is followed meticulously:  the local biggest vehicle goes wherever its driver wants to, when its driver wants to.

Applied to the open spectrum before the advent of spread spectrum, this would have been, the strongest transmitting signal du jour wins.   To claim a channel, all you would need to do is put up the strongest signal in that channel in your area which you would find usable until someone broadcast with a stronger signal still, which could simply mean, any transmitter closer to a receiver.   The open spectrum would be totally unusable chaos.  It would be like those 'open phone lines' from our youth, where you call a pnone number and can hear all of humanity talking at the same time, in other words, noise.

But, even in a world where the free market is going to use nothing but spread spectrum, that is no magic bullet if it operating in the wild, wild west, where anybody can throw up a transmitter and have at it.   Not even spread spectrum has infinite abilility to recover signal from overhwlming noise, it just has enhanced capability. 

Regulation of the open spectrum by some neutral third party/authority was a necessary evil to turn nothing into a usable something, and still is(for other than spread spectrum.) It is a classic problem of the commons, and there is no evidence that on average, the commons takes care of itself.   On average, the commons gets trashed and is unusable by anybody. 

I think it is still required untul spread spectrum is predominant in everything that uses the open spectrum (broadcast, comm, satellites, ...)    In otherwords, for the foreseeable future.   At the very least, the folks who we have empowered to project violence in our name are going to protect their use of that same spectrum in carrying out their mission.  Its not like there is one open spectrum for the military and defense satellites, etc., and one for the rest of us distributing porn.

Fibre is a whole different issue.     The fact that it crosses state lines in commerce is the absolute only hook into it. 

regards,
Fred


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Sunday, July 8, 2007 - 11:04amSanction this postReply
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Fred, you're a bit off topic on the discussion of net neutrality - which is a user/provider issue. (BTW, net neutrality is a terrible bureaucratic nightmare aimed at crippling competition to cable by new providers of fiber optic) But I agree that regulating broadcast airwaves is okay to a certain extent.

Ted

Post 5

Sunday, July 8, 2007 - 1:47pmSanction this postReply
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Ted:

Sorry.

My understanding of Net Neutrality is that some are asking for additional legislation to prohibit backbone carriers from charging  for mutliple tiered service; like, a premium express-way, and 'bulk mail'.   So, a packet is not just a packet at certain nodes.   There might be premium go fast packets that scoot along, and there might be if I'm not servicing a premium packet I'll get to you packets.   In cases where load needs to be shed, the premium packets get shed last, the unpaid packets get shed first, instead of an egalitarian all packets are packets model.   So, a commercial website can pay for premium tier access, and its clients will be amazed, while a subsidized  kid at college on a budget posting pictures of his ass might get complaints from his buddies.    Eventually, backbone carriers would auction off the highest tiered service, and folks who thought they had paid for premium service will suddenly find they have paid for sub tier service.  Just like domestic DSL vs business DSL, etc.

I don't really know how prevalent this model is, I think the objection is, with the wild-wild west model, nothing really prohibits this from being widespread in the future without some explicit law being passed.

I think this is another case of poor marketing.   If it was posed instead as follows, folks would be all over it.

"You can pay a premium, and use a private regulated network, like a turnpike for special traffic.   It will not only be a go fast route between hither and yon, but we'll also restrict access to it, so that the kids aren't rat racing and spray painting all over the place. Or, you can use the public roads, get stuck in traffic jams, be subject to drunken drivers, and kids weaving in and out of traffic hurling beer bottles at you, while having no recourse whatsover."

Alot of the kids don't like this idea of a toll road, because they think it's their right to hurl beer bottles at business traffic, that somehow, that defines freedom and not anarchy.

hey, there will always be a public internet, and it will always be what the public makes it.  Net Neutrality is about forcing business to live on 'the' public highway, and not permit public toll road highways.

regards,
Fred


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Sunday, July 8, 2007 - 2:12pmSanction this postReply
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Fred, the government has no business regulating the matter, period. I hope that's not too ambiguous.

Ted

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Sunday, July 8, 2007 - 2:42pmSanction this postReply
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Ted:

I agree with that.   The folks pushing NN are asking for more regulation, to enforce egalitarian "packets."   They are taking the whole egalitarian thing a bit too far.  What's next, "Postal Neutrality?"  (ie, no more UPS/Federal Express operating interstate on 'public' roads?)

regards,
Fred


Post 8

Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - 6:53pmSanction this postReply
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Oh, my. Never do a search on big hairy with the safety off.



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Post 9

Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - 7:41pmSanction this postReply
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ahh - now if ye could just put in a couple of eggs there... ;-)[maybe a wren too]

Post 10

Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - 8:30pmSanction this postReply
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Took me a second to get that.



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Post 11

Thursday, April 8, 2010 - 7:22amSanction this postReply
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In one sentence: "Net Neutrality" means the government gets to control the bandwidth and lag of all kinds of information transfer.

Bandwidth: Measured by bytes per second, its directly proportional to say the quality of an audio or video stream. Does the audio sound like you are in a cave or an open plain? Does the video look tiny, all blocky and garbled, or does it look crystal clear, sharp, and big?

Lag: The time between when something happens on one end of communication before the other end knows about it. How long after she said "hello" on her cell phone did you hear it?
(Edited by Dean Michael Gores on 4/08, 7:24am)


Post 12

Thursday, April 8, 2010 - 1:15pmSanction this postReply
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You left out an analysis of the moral dimension but the physical analysis was handy.

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