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Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 7:21pmSanction this postReply
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Ted Keer's post #3 in the "Books Recommended" thread contends that one shouldn't jump into philosophy without having a broad academic background and proposes 12 questions that one should be able to answer. I, for one, would like to know some of the answers, so go to it.

Who was Archimedes, who killed him, and why?
What is the younger Dryas?
Who are the Pela(s)gians?
Who were Patroclus, Aeolus, Antinoos and Hephaestion?
Who is Attis, and what is his modern analog?
Who first sailed around Africa, and what's the proof?
What is conferratio, compare rome, India & the US?
Why are there two tides a day, if the moon is on one side of the earth?
What is the political and linguistic origin of ostracism?
What is phlogiston, aether and the four humours?
What is a florin and a guilder?
What is the significance of L'anse aux Meadows?

I have provided the answer to, "Why are there two tides a day, if the moon is on one side of the earth?"

A water molecule on the far side of the earth from the moon is subject to less gravity from the moon than is the mass of the earth itself. The earth is in orbit around the moon just as the moon is in orbit around the earth (although the common point of rotation is within the sphere of the earth.) This molecule wants to go into an orbit around the moon that is farther from the moon and thus tries to bulge radially outward, creating a tide.

As an aside, the earth is continually flexing under the action of the moon's gravitation because different parts of the volume of the earth have different forces acting on them. I've never heard a discussion on this but the flexing must amount to quite a few feet. Surely the sophisticated GPSs must take this into account.

As a further aside, is there anywhere else where there is weightlessness other than in orbit or in a parabolic airplane dive?

Sam

(Edited by Sam Erica on 7/15, 7:29pm)

(Edited by Sam Erica on 7/15, 7:34pm)


Post 1

Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 8:53pmSanction this postReply
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Sam,

I won't answer the questions to my own quiz, but I will give my intuitive explanation of why there is a high tide both facing the moon and away from the moon. Imagine two people, Let's say Gerda and her daughter Selene, holding each other by the right hand with the left hand free and spinning in a circle. Gerda, being bigger, will stay pretty much in the same place, but will wobble about a point. As she spins, her right hand will be pulled by her daughter Selene, but her left hand will spin out at a 180 degree angle away from Selene. It will not be attracted to Selene. Now, replace Selene with the moon, the force of gravity with their grip, and Gerda's arms as the two high tides, one toward and one away from the moon.

Ted

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Post 2

Monday, July 16, 2007 - 2:02pmSanction this postReply
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I think this whole thing is inverted.  Shouldn't one have a philosophical basis prior to the academics?  Isn't that part of the problem with education today?  That the student learns rote facts, without any way to integrate them into a larger whole?

Post 3

Monday, July 16, 2007 - 6:05pmSanction this postReply
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Have you read The Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology, Bob?

Rand said that philosophy proper should be taught in college, not at the elementary school level. (This was in a Q&A somewhere) This doesn't mean neglecting the scientific method or not learning how to parse a sentence or check one's math. Of course neither she nor I nor anyone here believes in teaching rote facts. One must have a wide grounding in facts before one draws abstractions from abstractions.

And except for:

What is the younger Dryas?
Who are the Pela(s)gians?
What is a florin and a guilder?

There is a very interesting implied conclusion to be drawn from each of my questions. The three questions above should be in most college (if not high school) graduates' background knowledge. That is, even if they don't remember the specifics, they should have heard of them, unless they went to vocational school.

Ted Keer

Post 4

Monday, July 16, 2007 - 6:35pmSanction this postReply
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Conferratio was a misspellling. It is confarreatio. Also, Antinoos has variant spellings, usually Antinous.

None of these specific questions needs to be answered before someone can study philosophy. My intention was to give a sample of the broad range of knowledge that an advanced highschool or average college graduate (in a Western Society) should have before he thinks he is widely educated. I would have known all except L'anse Aux Meadows by the time I graduated high school. Also, the list was simply the first questions that popped into my head at the time of posting. The answers to most are found in Durant's volumes that I suggested.

Since I messed up Confarreatio, here is the answer:

Both Ancient Roman and modern Hindu contract marriages are performed with a pagan religious rite that involves the bride and groom feeding each other a piece of cake. (con-farre, with wheatcake) Gandhi was wed this way at 13 in a Hindu ceremony, as were most upperclass ancient Romans. In modern days, American spouses usually feed each other the first cuts of the wedding cake. The sacred meaning of the act having been lost to us, it usually is made into a farce where the bufoons smear the cake on each other. (This is just a coarsening of the culture, a side effect of Christianity turning sacred pagan rites into farces when they could not stamp them out entirely - compare Halloween, Santa Claus, and the Easter Bunny.) The fact that both the Roman and Hindu upper classes engage in just this same ritual shows that it is a part of our common descent from the ancient Indo-European warrior caste of the Russian Steppe of 4500BC, peoples known as the Kurgan civilization in the works of Marija Gimbutas and more infamously as the Aryans by German Scholars. The Indo-Europeans were the first to introduce the use of the horse into Europe and India.

The significance is that rituals long outlive their original motivations, and that they prove common cultural roots.

Ted Keer

(Edited by Ted Keer
on 7/16, 6:57pm)


Post 5

Monday, July 16, 2007 - 6:38pmSanction this postReply
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Ted, that's the one book left.  I think I'll get right on it, as I've just finished a book.

Your quiz is far too ambitious, I believe.  I, for one, would fail it miserably.  And, I don't consider myself an an ignorant man.

To give you some context, I've asked about 100 of my wife's students (she's a college prof) over the years, these 3 questions:

Who said "Give me Liberty or Give me Death"?
What were Nathan Hale's last words?
What river runs past St. Louis, MO?

I have never gotten a correct answer to even 1 of these questions.

That is the unfortunate state of American education.


Post 6

Monday, July 16, 2007 - 6:59pmSanction this postReply
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(1) Paine?
(2) I regret that I have but one life...
(3) The Mississippi and the Misssouri flow together at about Saint Louis, don't they? To be safe, I'd say the Missisissippi.


Post 7

Monday, July 16, 2007 - 7:15pmSanction this postReply
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I had to read ItOE twice to get it, and have read it four times. It rewards the investment, Rand considered it her most significant published work. Have you read Durant?

Ted


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Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 2:44pmSanction this postReply
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Patrick Henry, and it is Mississippi (they merge not too far north of St. Lou).

I have read Epistomogoly before.  Turns out it was published in it's entirety in "The Objectivist".  But, am re-reading it, anyway.

Haven't read Durant.  But, sounds like it should be on my list.  Are his books still in publication?  Could one find them at Borders?


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Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 2:47pmSanction this postReply
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....maybe that was Epistemology....

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Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 3:08pmSanction this postReply
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I knew there was a P in it! Any more questions? That was fun. And I do think my questions are too hard for of the top of the head answers, but I maintain that they should be familiar subjects to well educated people.

Another set of easy and truly trivial geographical questions - What is the highest number of states that any state borders? What is the lowest? Give examples.

Post 11

Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 4:09pmSanction this postReply
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(Edited by Sam Erica on 7/17, 4:47pm)


Post 12

Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 6:52pmSanction this postReply
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The Pelasgians (often rendered Pelagians) were the indigenous people of the Aegian prior to the Greeks. They were a sea-faring race (unlike the invading Indo-Europeans) and the term pelagic is used to refer to sea-surface activity, especially in reference to flora and fauna. The Pelasgian language is unknown, but it is likely that they were part of a complex of civilizations which included the Minoans and Etruscans and perhaps the Basques and the Picts, and likely the megalith builders who built stone-henge. The level of civilization in Europe prior to the Indo-Europeans is often underestimated. The myth of Atlantis most likely refers to the downfall of these peoples with the eruption of Santorini in 1250 BC. The crisis suffered by the civilized peoples of the Eastern Mediterranean at this time is credited by Jaynes as one of the goads to the evolution of the modern mind. The vacuum left by the fall of these pre-Indo-European peoples allowed the rise of the post-Mycenaean Greeks, the Persians, and the Davidic Kingdom of Israel, without which the rise of Hellenic and the Hellenistic civilizations, and ours would not have happened.

Ted Keer

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Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 8:12pmSanction this postReply
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My first thought was Florida, but Alaska and Hawaii are the lowest. Number of bordering states: zero.

The highest is probably somewhere in the near east (off the shoreline), where the states are smaller.


Post 14

Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 8:25pmSanction this postReply
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Neither Alaska nor Hawaii borders another state, so neither can border the least number of other states. There is a unique answer to the first question. There are two answers to the second.

Ted

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Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 8:41pmSanction this postReply
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Ted,

Regarding your reference to ITOE, I don't get your reasoning about learning loads of facts before learning philosophy. I get the just the opposite. For instance, here are some ITOE excerpts that seem to suggest that Rand thought philosophy was needed early, prior to learning a lot of scientific facts:

p 74 -- If it should be asked, at this point: Who, then, is to keep order in the organization of man's conceptual vocabulary, suggest the changes or expansions of definitions, formulate the principles of cognition and the criteria of science, protect the objectivity of methods and of communications within and among the special sciences, and provide the guidelines for the integration of man's knowledge?--the answer is: philosophy. ... Philosophy is the foundation of science ...

p 120-1 -- Epistemology, the theory of knowledge, the science that defines the rules by which man is to acquire knowledge of facts, has been disintegrated by the notion that facts are the subject matter of "synthetic," "empirical" propositions and, therefore, are outside of the province of philosophy--with the result that the special sciences are now left adrift in a rising tide of irrationalism.

p 235 -- Philosophical problems have to be solved on a level of knowledge available to a normal adult at any period of human development; so that philosophical concepts are really not dependent on the development of individual sciences.

p 289 -- Philosophy by its nature has to be based only on that which is available to the knowledge of any man with a normal mental equipment. Philosophy is not dependent on the discoveries of science; the reverse is true.

So whenever you are in doubt about what is or is not a philosophical subject, ask yourself whether you need a specialized knowledge, beyond the knowledge available to you as a normal adult, unaided by any special knowledge or special instruments. And if the answer is possible to you on that basis alone, you are dealing with a philosophical question.

Ted, can you give a direct quote supporting your statement (about philosophy being something for the more learned among us)?

Ed


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Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 8:47pmSanction this postReply
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Neither Alaska nor Hawaii borders another state, so neither can border the least number of other states.
You pedant. Are we going to get in a huff about this? I stand by the meaning of my original proposition: 0 is lower in value than 1 is (no matter what you have to say). Unless, of course, you are willing to go on record saying that 0 isn't a number???

Ed


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Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 10:32pmSanction this postReply
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The Book? Or the Window?

I do agree that general philosophical ideas have to be presentable in terms open to the general educated adult layman. But I think Rand is too inexact here to take as gospel. I would say that general philosophical ideas have to be comprehensible to those with general knowledge, but that detailed specific and technical problems of philosophy, such as the metaphysical nature of free will, or the specific principles of evidence in jurisprudence, should be handled by specialists with a broad range of knowledge in the appropriate areas.

Indeed, without both a broad range of knowledge, an empirical bent, and a wide inductive scope, one gets trapped in the Scholastic/Talmudic habit of quoting the revered texts of masters, debating over niceties such as how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, and distracted from the business of investigation because mere deduction is so much easier.

For example. I am a minimalist. I advocate the acceptance of Constitutional and common law. I do realize that an objective legal system can be had outside the terms of our Constitution - but that is a matter for study and not mere assertion. Now I hear people all the time talking about such notions as (1) competing privatized police forces and (2) the private ownership of absolutely all land. Those ideas are fine - if one realizes that (1) means gang warfare - mafia protection rackets and warlords as we have had at certain times in certain parts of Italy, Japan, Afghanistan, and China and that (2) means the advocacy of Feudalism and the inability of either private citizens or a modern police force to move freely without the express consent of every landholder whose property they would traverse. So, I have studied history in detail, have read about human societies from hunter gatherer to collective farming to pastoralism to private homesteading as was practiced under the Early Greeks and Romans to the rise of the Republic with its public fora and rights of way, back to the fall of the West and then the rise of Anglo-Saxon common law. One concept in common law is that of an easement. An easement is "an interest in land owned by another that entitles its holder to a limited right of usage such as passage or an unobstructed view." One very specific type of easement is an easement of necessity, which is implicit when a plot of land is subdivided. I cannot sell you land which you cannot access by a right of passage. Local jurisdictions regulate such easements and where such easements are common they become a part of the common right of way upon which our roads are built. So as a Constitutional minimalist who follows common law I reject out of hand the ideas of anarchocapitalists and the ideas of those who want to privatize all land. I believe that a minimal state requires the existence of a commons and that some of that commons must be developed as a right of way.

These ideas are complex. One has to study history, not just the history of the dates of Wars and the Reigns of Kings but political and social and legal history and comparative history in order to do philosophy properly without either painting oneself into a corner or trying to reinvent the wheel. This is a scholarly matter - and a fun thing to debate in a debating society. Before reading this piece, how many armchair Objectivists would have known what an easement is - from reading Rand alone - or just because they are "normal" adults? I would venture very few. Once the ideas of minimalism and common law and so forth are worked out, one can easily explain to a layman, when necessary, what an easement is, and why a minimalist system requires one. But Just being a normal adult, or being a normal adult who has read Rand, doesn't make one sufficiently expert on all philosophical concepts to hold oneself an authority.

You may see that I remain silent on most of the economic threads, except for rare brief comments. There are two reasons. I find economics tedious. And I know very little about it technically. I know enough. I know, because I have read Rand and Greenspan that a free market is best, that a hard currency is an uncorrupted and valuable currency, that so long as law is objective markets tend to self correct and that calling for more regulations because the old regulations have failed is not an improvement, but a disaster. Rand didn't come up with these ideas because she was a normal adult, or even because she was a genius, but because she had centuries of economic thought to stand on.

I expect that just as no one today (who has studied biology sufficiently) sees how it is that inanimate chemicals can be alive as a mystery, in due time the mechanisms of mind and free will will also become more clear to us. I have my own thoughts. But as someone just said - I don't need to know how my car works in order to see that it works. And the denial of free-will as self-contradictory is enough to allow my to sleep easily at night until the biomechanics of free will are worked out. I am not a mechanic, so I won't attempt to opine on how a car goes, so long as as a layman my car does go. When it doesn't, the philosopher has advised me not to pray, to kick the tires, or to steal someone else's car. At that time I go see the mechanic. If, two hundred years ago, you had asked me how life works, I couldn't have explained about the cellular structure or about genetics or about germ theory. But I would have said nothing comes from nothing, and matter and energy are conserved and that I am alive. I would have told you that someday, the mechanism will most likely be discovered - not by laymen reading Aristotle - but the mechanism will be discovered. I would have told you to read widely and do experiments if you want to be on the cutting edge. And I would have told anyone who told me that life was a myth or that I couldn't prove that I was alive to please empty his pockets, hand over his bullion, and please go jump in a lake wearing this handy pair of lead boots.

Ted Keer


Post 18

Friday, July 20, 2007 - 12:35amSanction this postReply
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The question was which state borders the least number of states, not which states do not border other states.


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Friday, July 20, 2007 - 9:36amSanction this postReply
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Maine borders only on New Hampshire.

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