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Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 4:27pmSanction this postReply
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At his rally, Glenn Beck spoke to the multitudes: "Something beyond imagination is happening." "America today begins to turn back to God."

Beck exhorted the crowd to "recognize your place to the creator. Realize that he is our king. He is the one who guides and directs our life and protects us." He asked his audience to pray more. "I ask, not only if you would pray on your knees, but pray on your knees but with your door open for your children to see."

So, we really don't own our own lives, according to Beck. We don't guide and direct them ourselves. God does, so we have to pray to him to get what we want and need.

How is this any different from allowing the state to guide and direct our lives? We're still not in charge of how we live; a higher power is. True liberty is as incompatible with theism as it is with statism. Glenn Beck is not a true proponent of liberty; he simply champions a different kind of subservience.


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Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 6:06pmSanction this postReply
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All religions, by their nature, are subserviences, and arose hand in hand with the 'state', from the tribal leader of caveman lore to the bandits of governments today... the difference lies in which to be subservience to...
(Edited by robert malcom on 8/29, 6:08pm)


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Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 6:20pmSanction this postReply
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Glenn Beck, with all of his wonderful insights, analyses and uncovering of corruption and Marxists in government has highjacked the tea party agenda.

What a disappointment.

Sam

WIJG?


Post 3

Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 6:48pmSanction this postReply
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We knew he was religious from the start. But lately he has turned the volume way up on his religious beliefs. I'm sad that he has gone so far in that direction, and that he is has started to tie politics to religion as if a belief in God was necessary to justify individual rights ('from the creator'). There are others who are not atheists yet do not see it that way (Judge Napolitano, for example).

If this focus on religion continues, I'll be interested in seeing if it helps or hurts his popularity. It will certainly have me changing channels, but then I'm not very main-stream in this area.

He still stands as this century's Thomas Paine when it comes to exposing the progressives, and turning around the perception of this administration and he did more to create the Tea Party movement than anyone else. Those 300,000 or so voters at the rally should scare the hell out of the progressives - especially this close to the election.

Beck is right to look beyond political principle, and he is right to recognize that today's problems and their cures both arise from character. But he picked the wrong moral system with it's absurd mythology, and disastrous epistemology.
-----------------

Changing the subject a little...

Beck was the first to say that Obama would rather be a one-term president than to move to the center-right the way Clinton did to win his second term. I agree that Obama is an ideologue and would never change his core principles to stay in office. But that doesn't mean that Obama can't pretend to change and do whatever it takes to stay in office - all for the purpose of making sure that his 'transformation' will take. That is the danger, that he will use his personal popularity, and lies, to win enough support to win the nomination. Then, having created the appearance of moving to the center - which can be done between 2011 and the Presidential election - he can optimize his chances for re-election. He wants to be holding the reins when the next really big crisis hits because that is when he can finish his transformation.


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Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 7:39pmSanction this postReply
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I agree with Steve that Beck was the best thing for America since Ronald Reagan. However, just today, I had to change the radio station when Beck uttered some complete nonsense. Something like:

The only way a 'movement' can help us is if it is religious.

This is akin to saying that the only way that you can justify individual rights is via religion. It is exactly the brand of 'conservatism' which Rand properly railed against for failing to properly defend individual rights (leading to our current political catastrophe in the U.S.).

With Beck defending individual rights via a deontological "God wants us free" argument, and John Mackey defending individual rights with the 'serpentine windings' of a utilitarian argument -- we are totally-screwed without a Rand-revival to counteract these other two candy-coated poisons.

Please, Atlas Shrugged movie, please hit the box offices soon!

Ed
(Edited by Ed Thompson on 8/31, 7:43pm)


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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 - 12:31amSanction this postReply
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After seeing that crowd of about 500,000 that came to Glenn Beck's rally I found myself doing some rethinking.

No way that group of people were all obsessed with things religious. (I sure that many were, but no where near a half million.) I began to suspect that there is something that I am not seeing. Every now and then I get lucky and see where one of my principles which is right, is none-the-less, blocking me from seeing something else.

I started putting myself, as best as I could, in the shoes of someone who isn't intellectual, who hasn't made a large part of their life working with ideas, who has children that are still fairly young, who lives in our heartland and hasn't experienced what life is like in the big cities or the hip coastal regions, and can not articulate that well the deep sense that everything has gone wrong.

They sense that it is not just the economy, not just the obvious problems with a health system that will make things worse not better, not just the craziness of Obama and Holder joining suit with Mexico in a law suit against Arizona to repeal a law that is a copy of a federal statute, not just that real unemployment averages about 15% across the nation and those in power keep talking about the jobs 'saved' during a summer of 'recovery, not just that bailouts don't work, but that by now everyone sees they are just redistributing wealth from the successful to the failures, not just that the people in power hire consultants to fashion sound bites to make them sound moral and caring while we watch one after another uncovered as corrupt. And the news is filled with death and threats from 7th century savages - in the UN, in seats of foreign governments.

Their gut tells them that everything is backwards and something inside them rebels at the pervading sense of futility, a sense of hopelessness... as if these abominations were like facts of nature and never to be fixed. Imagine seeing the future trashed as you look at your children playing and laughing - not because you made a mistake, but in spite of doing things right.

Now, remember, these parents grew up watching John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart, Leave it to Beaver, Father Knows Best. They grew up in a world where it made sense to see the good in man, to see shining hope in the future, and to believe in a better world for their children. They believe that man is capable of goodness and capable of fixing what problems arise. These are values cast as cultural metaphors, cultural icons, and internalized as guiding emotions and the general standards by which a life was directed.

We talk here about political principles, we grasp the importance and place of epistemology and metaphysics for any philosophical system. We never let go of our understanding of morality and ethics as the necessary root of politics. But for this man and woman from Nebraska, who may not be any more religious than my parents or regular people I've worked along side of through my life, their world is much less understood, and rather is felt. They are feeling the world go grey. It includes no more heroes on the sliver screen, slice of life novels, What as a child they were taught is rude, or tacky, or wrong, is now celebrated. Trash and triviality garner the prized. No one teaches right from wrong in the schools but rather cultural relativism and political correctness, no commonality of morality in a world where Hollywood comes into the living room and downtown movie theaters.

They are pulled by Beck's call for virtues, for character, for honor. Unlike me, they aren't repulsed by religion and so they are more accepting of 'good' things in that package.

Beck is very right when he says this not just about politics. That it will take more than the Tea Party to save our nation. He is still right when he turns to individual character traits, to virtues. He is dead wrong when he says that the best or only place to find the moral and ethical values we need is in the Judaeo-Christian tradition. Actually, the exuberance of earlier America formed commonsense moral values and ethical codes that never really fit altruism, and certainly not the ugly rituals that make up so much of religions' con games. This is where Beck wants to go with his quest to restore honor. It is what we need to do, but it isn't found in God or faith. And hope will come naturally to those who live with their eyes open and stay true to their principles. Charity is a natural by product of man's benevolence and a system that respects his freedom. Beck has the 'details' wrong, but his heart and his instincts are right.

I was stunned when I looked inside and saw how blind I was to this oneness of the liberal/secular/anti-heroic view. We have written and read here at this forum about aesthetics and Rand made it a key part of Objectivism. But in my mind I tended to think more of psychology principles on the individual level and not paying as much attention to the . The need for aesthetics, and in specific for art that portrays a universe open to growth and good will and success and to a society of men one can look up to.

From this perspective look at the aesthetics, if you will, of Black Liberation Theology, or bailing out failures with money needed by successful people, or redistributing wealth to whinny bums, to the endless parade of self-perpetuating corruption in places of power.

If I've been successful in communicating what I see now, you can understand why people 'cling to their religion.' It is not just what they know, and it is not just out of fear or uncertainty, but a drive to stand tall and proud with clear values and real heroes. You and I know that this is a mistaken view when it incorporates reason-destroying faith, and that altruism will cripple heroes - but in the American heartland religion is held differently.

We need to join them in the drive for heroes, in a vision of a bright world where good things are possible, and show how that looks without faith or mysticism or self-sacrifice. They are far more our allies in this battle than a bitter, hate-filled, far-left apologist for Obama's policies who also happens to be atheist.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 - 1:46pmSanction this postReply
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New poster here, Greetings, not much to say other than thanks to Steve; your words were helpful for the many insights offered.

My one thought to share would be 'god or nature - nature or god' - either/or is the message Beck has to offer; even if he does not fully realize that being 'devout' as one who is a true 'believer'.

Post 7

Wednesday, September 1, 2010 - 4:43pmSanction this postReply
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Welcome, Paul. Thanks for the kind words.

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Post 8

Wednesday, September 1, 2010 - 5:05pmSanction this postReply
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Nice posts, Steve and Ed.

Beck is like a tuning fork, who has found a current resonance to tune to. The nation is largely nominally Christian, and believes in God, and is pissed at it doesn't know what; government, the GOP, the Democrats, the political overclass, Wall Street. That's the populist reality.

Is Beck simply pandering? I don't know. I doubt it. It's entirely possible those are his beliefs, and this is a confluence of interests.

I personally am less concerned about rampant Christianity running loose in our nation than I am rampant social scientology. The Christian variant is relatively harmless, compared to a religion that believes "S"ociety is God and the state is its proper church. I'm not upset when a political leader confesses that he has religious views. They are his to have. The Christian variant by and large keeps its business in church, on Sunday, and with the exception of the GOP making a play to be the party of God, have not been nearly as intrusive as the social scientologists, who have grabbed the machinery of state by the belt.

They are both based on unseen Magic Spirits in the Sky, but the social scientologists are much more aggressive about eating freedom, IMO.

Christianity never came close to implementing an American Theocracy, in spite of being the majority religion for centuries. OTOH, it took the social scientologists far less than a century to grab the machinery of state and start to eat freedom in a big way.

If Beck can ride his religious views to take down a piece of the current theocracy, then more power to him. I don't see any Inquisitions coming out his movement, I do see them regularly coming out of the movement that has already over-run our state.

regards,
Fred





Post 9

Wednesday, September 1, 2010 - 6:21pmSanction this postReply
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Glenn Beck was truly awesome today. He has a capability of communicating his views in a unique and understandable way to almost anyone. This episode is on the steps that one must take to protect ones self by investing in stocks to bonds to real estate to treasuries to gold as confidence in the policies of the government decays.

He has only a few references to religion at the end.

Sam

WIJG?

 


Post 10

Thursday, September 2, 2010 - 4:39pmSanction this postReply
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Welcome to RoR, Paul.

Ed


Post 11

Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 11:53pmSanction this postReply
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Fred ol' buddy ol' pal, need I remind you of the Comstock Laws, or America pre-RoeVsWade?

Or the Blue Laws?

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