[an error occurred while processing this directive]
About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page


Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Post 0

Friday, July 19 - 9:10amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I received this in an email broadcast by Henry Mark Holzer with a request that it be distributed far and wide.
-------------------------
Obama, Holder, and the New McCarthyism
by Robert Bidinotto
In the wake of George Zimmerman's acquittal of the murder of Trayvon Martin, the Attorney General of the United States, through his underlings at the Department of “Justice,” is appealing to the general public to supply the federal government with “tips,” i.e., dirt, on a private citizen —and is now enlisting private political gangs to help them in this witch hunt.

Barbara Arnwine, president and executive director the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law—who earlier in the day joined calls for federal civil rights charges against Zimmerman, said that later in the afternoon, she joined a U.S. Department of Justice conference call to discuss the prospects.

“They were calling on us to actively refer anyone who had any information, that might build a case against Zimmerman for either a civil rights violation or a hate crime,” Arnwine said. “They said they would very aggressively investigate this case.”

Arnwine said the call was convened at about 3:30 p.m. by Tom Perez, Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division of the United States Department of Justice [Obama’s nominee for Secretary of Labor—HMH), and included representatives from the FBI, and several federal prosecutors, she said. DOJ officials also said they would open a public email address so people could send in tips on the case....(I refuse to publish that email address here.)

In addition to Arnwine’s group, Sherrilyn Ifill, President and Director-Counsel of the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund; Laura Murphy, Washington Chapter head of the ACLU; and several national, Florida and Sanford-based “human relations” groups participated, Arnwine said.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the last straw.

America is a nation where every individual is supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, under the rule of law. For purely political reasons, George Zimmerman was dragged into court on flimsy evidence, but then acquitted by a jury of any crime.

But that is not enough for the gangsters of this regime. They won't let a little thing like the verdict of a jury be the last word.

So the highest law enforcement official of the United States, acting at the behest of his boss in the Oval Office, is now leading a full-blown witch hunt about the private life and views of an individual citizen—and enlisting a gang of private political cronies and allies to assist them, in order to railroad that same individual behind bars for the “crime” of—are you ready?—“hate.”

Let's get this straight. Hatred is an attitude...a frame of mind...an emotion based on certain ideas. Hate may or may not be justified, depending on the circumstances. A victim of a heinous crime or a despotic regime, for example, may be fully justified for feeling hatred. It would be a just, though certainly not pleasant, emotional response to mistreatment.

But to convict a person of “hate crimes” is a variation of George Orwell's totalitarian concept in 1984 of thought crimes: of punishing an individual, not for criminal actions, but for merely holding ideas and emotions that are offensive to the political regime in power.

In short, the Attorney General and his boss have just declared open war on the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, as well as on the privacy protections afforded by the Fifth Amendment. Moreover, they are encouraging a witch hunt by private citizens against a fellow private citizen: encouraging people to go spying and reporting to the government about a political target.

Before anyone replies that a “hate crime” must also be an actual crime, and that the “hate” is only its motive, let me point out that in Zimmerman’s case, he was exonerated of any underlying crime which could be motivated by “hate,” or by anything else. Thus, persecuting Zimmerman for an alleged “hate crime,” when no crime exists, can only mean that he is being targeted for his presumed motive alone. In other words, for a “Thought Crime,” a la Orwell’s 1984.

Please forget the name George Zimmerman for a moment, and whatever your opinion of the man may be. Consider only the principles at stake. To do that, put yourself in the shoes of such a targeted individual.

How would you feel if you became the target of the enormously powerful federal government, which insisted on continuing to persecute you for something, anything, such as your thoughts and emotions, even after you were exonerated in a court of law of the alleged crimes?

How would you feel if hundreds of armed apparatchiks from the FBI and other police agencies were dispatched after the trial to continue to hound you, under orders of the chief law officer of the land?

How would you feel if he, acting under orders of his boss in the White House, dispatched investigators around your neighborhood, digging into your past, perhaps looking into your emails and social media (there are precedents), soliciting any idle rumors and unprovable claims about your attitudes, ideas, and temperament from everyone you know now or had ever known; from old lovers or spouses who might bear some grudge against you; from any past employer you ever argued with or who may have fired you; from any casual acquaintance who might want his 15 minutes of celebrity fame on an MSNBC show hosted by the likes of Al Sharpton, or perhaps in exchange for the promise of some government reward...at your expense?

My friends, this is goon squad stuff, right out of the playbooks of Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Communist China, and North Korea. In a nation supposed to be distinguished from such dictatorships by our Bill of Rights, the contemptible Obama Regime is establishing the horrifying precedent of targeting enemies, then soliciting neighbors to spy and report on them.

And this sickening witch hunt is being led by the same "liberals" who endlessly, self-righteously preach against the dangers of “McCarthyism.” Perhaps the most grotesque symbol of hypocrisy is the fact that one of the groups participating in this witch hunt is the Washington chapter of the ACLU—the self-proclaimed "liberal" champion of the Bill of Rights.

I have said that there is no bottom to the depths to which this power-lusting group of sanctimonious gangsters won't sink. Every day they prove me right by descending to yet a lower rung. But this is the lowest yet...and the most dangerous.

The Obama Regime is loaded with nothing but wannabe despots, starting right at the top. We have already seen how far these people are willing to go, with the scandals of the IRS, EPA, SEC, NSA, and many other agencies. They have zero respect for the rule of law and contempt for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, which they regard rightly as impediments to their quest for boundless, unending power over the rest of us.

If we continue to perpetuate them in office after the next election, we as a nation deserve the complete destruction and chaos toward which we are rapidly sinking.

Meanwhile, though, we need to SPEAK UP against this outrageous new step toward totalitarianism. Please link to this message on your social media, and to the Orlando Sentinel report. This ugly precedent must be stopped dead in its tracks, now...or you and I will not recognize this nation in another year.



Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 1

Friday, July 19 - 11:54amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
The left is ...frantic now.

They were all lined up, ready for this Zimmerman case to jumpstart all kind of agendas. When it blew up in their faces, the are now in fullblown Soviet mode; rapidly making it up as they go.

As well, the media is mostly All Zimmerman All The Time now, which must be a welcome relief to the NSA, IRS, Benghazi, ObamaCare postponing POTUS.

You might say that Holder is now Fast and Furious.

They keep slapping paint over their collapsing failures. They keep putting lipstick on these pigs called 'the Economy' and telling the nation any day now...for now five plus years and counting. You see, the recalcitrant GOP is the only thing keeping them from delivering more jobs, jobs, jobs; if only they would(fully) get behind this new Soviet Model of 'The Economy Running,' why, all would be fine.

As if.

Drive around(outside of DC) and count the 'for sale' or 'for lease' signs. The nation's been totally gutted by the environment established by these RaceClassGender mongers on the way to their fave pet Soc. grad school theories. The engines that once drove American economies are long stalled, sputtering on 2 cylinders. And with every passing day, they can't hide that fact.

Detroit is the dead canary in the coal mine.

The only thing that will save this nation from the brink is a 180 degree turnaround from its 80+ year slide downhill and a full sprint away from this left wing infestation of complete nonsense that is killing the nation.

Unfortunately, the modern GOP is not and has not been leading either that turnaround, nor certainly any sprint away. They've also been a party of power during this decline, and have failed to stop the bleeding. And the reality ism, there is no effective third party alternative to oppose this entrenched trend left. I love what the libertarian party says...but it just is not going to gain enough traction in this current tribal cluster fuck we got going.

So...it is just going to break. What happens after it breaks(this had been like watching slow death, because America was once a huge beast, and left a massive carcass which is still being carved only)is totally up for grabs.

Judging by early reviews of 'the new school', good luck to us all. What time is left is probably best spent studying reruns of "Naked and Afraid" to gsrner the skills necessary in the coming decline of modernity.

regards,
Fred





Post 2

Friday, July 19 - 12:09pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
This has become even more pertinent given the press conference Obama gave today. And given the Congressional Black Caucus meeting with the Justice Department this morning to push for federal action against Zimmerman.

The President, talking about Trayvon Martin, said "This could have been me, thirty-five years ago." How could he not grasp that it means he might have attacked someone, beat on them, and told them he was going to kill them while pounding their head on the concrete? Why are so many people forgetting that this was a case adjudicated as self-defense, meaning that Martin had initiated life-threatening violence.
-----------

It isn't possible to separate the different agendas, like using up the finite focus of the media at a time when the administration is swamped with scandals and would like to change the subject, like using a crisis to further the Progressive's unrelenting drive towards gun control, like building greater solidarity with Blacks as part of their identity politics, like using a divisive wedge issue to keep the pressure on with regards to the next election.

This is about motivation and we can't read minds.... but I'm thinking this may be something coming out of the core of the Far Left's psychology... that tendency to find anything that can be twisted into even remotely relating to race when ever they get excited, and especially when they are threatened, as a defense. One would like to think that the person who is serving as president of the country wouldn't purposely choose to stir up racial animosity for political goals... but that's what it looks like. Does the man WANT a race war?

(Edit... I wrote this before Fred's missive above and then we cross-posted. His post is such a fine read that had I seen it, I'd have just smiled and not posted.)
(Edited by Steve Wolfer on 7/19, 12:15pm)




Post 3

Friday, July 19 - 5:18pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Detroit is the dead canary in the coal mine.

The only thing that will save this nation from the brink is a 180 degree turnaround from its 80+ year slide downhill and a full sprint away from this left wing infestation of complete nonsense that is killing the nation.

Unfortunately, the modern GOP is not and has not been leading either that turnaround, nor certainly any sprint away. They've also been a party of power during this decline, and have failed to stop the bleeding.
I heard a former cabinet member (of both Bush and Obama) on the radio today. He has a book called something like: America goes it alone on high Corporate Tax Rates. He said that the econo-politico climate in this country is so poor, that it pays to get out. He said that foreign nationals are buying up US companies at a rate of almost 2.5 companies per day.

To repeat, we are losing about 2.5 companies per day (under the current administration of constitutional government). There is a reason that more than half of the "citizens" of Detroit have left. It had the highest per-capita income in the entire world once. EJ Dionne says that the reason Detroit failed is because of free trade (i.e., 'creative destruction'). If people can still say stuff like that without blinking, we might be partially doomed. I say partially doomed because you are never totally doomed while alive.

EJ, If you are reading this, please answer: If Detroit is a model of free trade, what would a model of non-free trade look like?

Ed




Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 4

Saturday, July 20 - 7:33amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
The irony about Detroit...it was exactly those pictures of Detroit from 50 years ago that helped launch Johnson's Great Society/War on Poverty.

50 years later, Detroit looks worse, not better. The Left's explanation? 'would have been worse...would have collapsed even faster...and the most absurd of all, EJ Dionne's 'because of free trade.' Seriously?

Never 'we obviously moved things along in precisely the wrong direction with our now 50+ years -- several generations -- of clueless, elitist coercive paternalistic fatfingering of "S"ociety.

"Social Engineering" my sweaty butt.

The jury is in on 'Social Engineering;' MASSIVE FAIL.

And that is why the unsightly, desperate nationwide wallowing in the Zimmerman verdict.

regards,
Fred



(Edited by Fred Bartlett on 7/20, 7:48am)




Post 5

Saturday, July 20 - 11:02amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Social engineering is also just as much a right wing, conservative, industrial and post-industrial enterprise.  The massive federal loans for college education are example of that, using the colleges as middle class breeding grounds, bringing more people into the clerical pool of the computer era.  Of course, it started earlier...

In Huxley's Brave New World, "Our Ford" was the founder of the perfectly controlled society.  Henry Ford even tried experiments with handicapped people, not out of charity, but on the theory that man with only a left arm would be good on the left side of the assembly line.  Henry Ford had no problem dealing with Hitler's Germany or with Stalin's Russia.  It is a sad story, though, to read about what happened to the UAW organizers who went to work in Russia, which is why George Meany was such a strong anti-communist.

No one social process took down Detroit. However, one basic fact is that you could get a "good job" without an education, so it was inevitable that two, three, four generations of parents could not help their children with their homework...  And this was true in Flint, in Lansing, in South Bend, Kenosha, and Toledo, anywhere that the automotive production mentality took hold.

Michigan always wavered from Republican to Democratic governors and legislative majorities.  George Romney had been an executive with the Automobile Manufacturers Association and American Motors.  He was no different from Democrat James Blanchard who was the Congressman instrumental in getting Lee Iococca's bail-out of Chrysler.

Meanwhile....  Detroit was home to Burroughs, the ancestor of Unisys, and is still the home of CompuWare, a leading creator of mainframe software tools, the most famous of which is Abend Aid.  ... but people who sought education did so largely through the Catholic schools, not public, and moved out the suburbs in their quest for self-improvement. 

Those who depended on good jobs not requiring education stayed behind to be manipulated - and abandoned as scrap - by the social planners of industry.

Detroit's first race riot was Belle Isle, attributed to Nazi sympathizers among the hillbillies who came to work in the factory and did not like uppity Negroes who expected to share a public restroom because "they think their fannies are just as good as ours."




Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 6

Saturday, July 20 - 12:41pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Michael,
Social engineering is also just as much a right wing, conservative, industrial and post-industrial enterprise.
If your examples had been about Neo-cons attempting to force democracy on other parts of the world, or about establishment Republicans going along with bailouts or promoting corporate subsidies, or about the religious right attempting to force religious practices on others, or about Paleo-conservatives attempting to erect trade barriers, you would have been correct - to a degree. But, you would still have been wrong implying that the total social engineering proposed by the right is anywhere near to the same quantity or intensity of social engineering proposed and promoted by the left. The left wants cradle to grave regulation of every facet of our lives.

You mentioned massive federal student loans and said, in effect,, they were to create workers for corporations as part of conservative-driven social engineering. I've only heard that kind of jargon coming from the far left. It just isn't true.

From Wikipedia: "U.S. Government-backed student loans were first offered in the 1950s under the National Defense Education Act (NDEA), and were only available to select categories of students, such as those studying toward engineering, science, or education degrees. The student loan program was established in response to the Soviet Union (USSR's) launch of the Sputnik satellite, and a widespread perception that the United States was falling behind on education and technology in the Cold War." This was a bi-partisan bill initiated by Eisenhower that represented his view of national defense requirements (like the Interstate Highway System). And it arose out of the cold war threat from the Soviet Union.

After that, modern student loans programs were started as part of Lyndon Johnston's Great Society with the Higher Education Act of 1965. And the various federal loan programs are funded and administered by Jimmy Carter's Dept. of Education (Perkins and Stafford loans). These are both left-wing, social engineers.



Post 7

Saturday, July 20 - 8:01pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
'Fun Facts'** about Detroit

1.8 million people lived in Detroit, but 1.1 million people left (presumably because it is a socialist hell-hole)

700,000 poor souls remain (to drive on roads where bushes have sprung up from underneath the cracked pavement -- as depicted in the 2007 film: I am Legend)

Socialist legacy costs -- which I take to mean things like pensions and health care -- account for 38% of the current Detroit budget

Socialist legacy costs -- under the 'business-as-usual' (BAU) assumption -- are projected to rise to 65% of the Detroit budget

For at least a short stretch, somewhere between 50 and 100 years ago, Detroit had the highest per capita income on the planet

A documentary film exists -- sorry, I forget the name! -- showing a huge tree growing out of the ceiling of what was the biggest train station in the world (a Detroit train station)

In this film, the building of what was the biggest factory in the world -- sorry, I forget the name! -- is now used for immoral dog-fighting and drug-filled rave parties

Under the rules of the bankruptcy, if you had a pension of $70,000 a year ($20,000 more than the median working wage) -- you are now expected to live on only $7000 a year -- eating dog food and getting your health care from fly-by-night, snake-oil hucksters who do not even have a license to practice medicine

Ed

**Caution: These 'facts' are only 'as remembered' (from my hearing them on NPR last week)! Possibly inaccurate due to dispositional embellishment on my part. Accept these 'facts' at your own risk!

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 7/20, 8:10pm)




Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 8

Saturday, July 20 - 8:40pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Detroit - Starnsville



Post 9

Saturday, July 20 - 11:23pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Good point, Steve.

The largest factory at the time was the Packard Plant in Detroit, now utilized by gangster thugs for dog-fights. Pictures are available at:

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1864272,00.html


To be compared with a picture from the film adaptation of 'I am Legend':

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1396086784/tt0480249


Ed




Post 10

Sunday, July 21 - 7:17amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
America without capitalism.





Post 11

Sunday, July 21 - 7:25amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit


Detroit has the New Deal.

Detroit has the Great Society.

Detroit has Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.

Detroit has the UAW.

Detroit has the benefit of living under the protective umbrellas of a federal government that spends $3800B/yr.

Detroit has a GM propped up by federal tax dollars.

Detroit has the benefit of 8 decades of 'mixed economy' reining in of the excesses of capitalism.

The only thing Detroit doesn't have is capitalism. Because who in their right mind would ever prepay their own ransom in this current tribal cluster fuck?

Detroit is the American face of living and working to meet the endless demands of the tribe first. Ain't happening without the guns and whips and chains.









Post 12

Sunday, July 21 - 8:37amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit


The City of Detroit was the origin for the southeast Michigan metroplex.  Whether it is the traditional Tri-County Region (Wayne, Macomb,Oakland), or the five-county extention that grew up in the 1980s, and whehter it actually should also include Windsor, Ontario, is a matter of definition for convenience.  It is true that within the City of Detroit corporation limits most of the productive wealth has fled to the outlying cities. Many causes can be cited and all are factors.  Among them, the automotive manufactures obtained favorable tax breaks on their own properties while destroying the homes that had been the traditional tax base.  The Poletown disaster was the last example.

It is too easy to claim that Detroit is somehow the special product of left wing, liberal, progressive, Democratic Party policies.  Such glosses would not apply to these examples below - except, of course, as all of the are consequences of too much government from ineffective police and fire to the burdens of garbage collection, water and sewer utilities, electricity production, and streets and roads, as well as recreational parks.

List of Bankruptcy Filings Since January 2010
All Municipal Bankruptcy Filings: 36
City and Locality Bankruptcy Filings (8):
-- City of Detroit
-- City of San Bernardino, Calif.
-- Town of Mammoth Lakes, Calf. (Dismissed)
-- City of Stockton, Calif.
-- Jefferson County, Ala.
-- City of Harrisburg, Pa. (Dismissed)
-- City of Central Falls, R.I.
-- Boise County, Idaho (Dismissed)
http://www.governing.com/gov-data/municipal-cities-counties-bankruptcies-and-defaults.html

Seven largest city bankruptcies.
1. Stockton, California
Bankruptcy filing: 2012
Population (in 2010): 291,707
2. Bridgeport, Connecticut
Bankruptcy filing: 1991
Population (in 1990): 141,686
3. Vallejo, California
Bankruptcy filing: 2008
Population (in 2010): 115,942
4. Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
Bankruptcy filing: 2011
Population (in 2010): 49,528
5. Prichard, Alabama
Bankruptcy filing: 1999
Population (in 2000): 28,633
Second bankruptcy filing: 2009
Population (in 2010): 22,659

6. Central Falls, Rhode Island
Bankruptcy filing: 2011
Population (in 2010): 19,376
7. Desert Hot Springs, California
Bankruptcy filing: 2001
Population (in 2000): 16,582
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2012/06/7-biggest-cities-file-bankruptcy/2397/

Of course bankruptcy is only a business decision. While not good news, neither is it the end of the world.
Connecticut Tries to Cancel Bridgeport's Bankruptcy :
Cities: State fears action by its biggest muncipality could harm whole area's credit.
Banks won't cash public workers' paychecks.
June 08, 1991 |SCOT J. PALTROW | TIMES STAFF WRITER
BRIDGEPORT, Conn. — Connecticut state officials moved swiftly Friday to try to cancel a bankruptcy filing by the city of Bridgeport, fearing that the desperate action by the city might harm the entire state's credit rating.

But today ...
In the early 21st century, Bridgeport is a city that has taken steps toward redevelopment of its downtown and other neighborhoods. In 2004, artists' lofts were developed in the former Read's Department Store on Broad Street. Several other rental conversions have been completed, including the 117-unit Citytrust bank building on Main Street. The recession has halted, at least temporarily, two major mixed-use projects including a $1 billion waterfront development at Steel Point, but other redevelopment projects have proceeded, such as the condominium conversion project in Bijou Square.[25] In 2009, the City Council approved a new master plan for development, designed both to promote redevelopment in selected areas and to protect existing residential neighborhoods.[26] In 2010, the Bridgeport Housing Authority and a local health center announced plans to build a $20 million medical and housing complex at Albion Street, making use of federal stimulus funds and designed to replace some of the housing lost with the demolition of Father Panik Village.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgeport,_Connecticut


 

 
Of course, much that could be considered "social engineering" if you believe that the only function of a city government is to have courts and police.  If you accept a city as a corporation, then the council's management of the resources are no different from that of any other board of any other corporation.  Should a firm own its own buildings and have adjacent landscaping?  Should a firm own a bus or a fleet of cars? Or have its own fire department?  Should a city?  How do you decide?

And when costs outrun incomes, whom do you blame?

AMONG THE TOP CORPORATE BANKRUPTCIES OF 2012
  • #1: Residential Capital, LLC.  ResCap was one of the biggest subprime-mortgage lenders in the country and was hit hard by the financial crisis.
  • #2: Edison Mission Energy.  California-based coal, natural gas, and wind power producer Edison Mission filed for Chapter 11 at the end of 2012 with $3.7 billion in debt.
  • #3: Eastman Kodak Company.  The New York-based imaging pioneer was unable to sell 1,100 digital-imaging patents that could have forestalled a bankruptcy filing. Last January, Kodak filed for Chapter 11 protection citing $6.24 billion in assets and $7.3 billion in debt with approximately 17,000 employees at the time.
  • #8: Hawker Beechcraft, Inc.  Based in Kansas, this company is a manufacturer of business, special mission, and trainer/attack aircraft as well as parts and aviation products. It filed for Chapter 11 with $2.8 billion in assets and a staggering $3.7 billion in debt.
  • #9: Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Compan.  Along with 20 affiliates, the Massachusetts-based textbook, novel, book, and reference work publisher, filed pre-negotiated Chapter 11 cases citing $2.7 billion in assets and $3.5 billion in debt.

Others - newsworthy but not so large - include:
Hostess Brands, Inc.,
Reader’s Digest  (2013)
Atari (2013)
http://blog.startfreshtoday.com/blog/bid/271175/Top-10-Business-Bankruptcies-of-2012

Were those the result of liberal progressive Democratic Party leftwing welfare social engineering?




Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 13

Sunday, July 21 - 9:41amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Mike M.,

  • #8: Hawker Beechcraft, Inc.  Based in Kansas, this company is a manufacturer of business, special mission, and trainer/attack aircraft as well as parts and aviation products. It filed for Chapter 11 with $2.8 billion in assets and a staggering $3.7 billion in debt.
  • #9: Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Compan.  Along with 20 affiliates, the Massachusetts-based textbook, novel, book, and reference work publisher, filed pre-negotiated Chapter 11 cases citing $2.7 billion in assets and $3.5 billion in debt.

  • Others - newsworthy but not so large - include:
    Hostess Brands, Inc.,
    Reader’s Digest  (2013)
    Atari (2013)
    http://blog.startfreshtoday.com/blog/bid/271175/Top-10-Business-Bankruptcies-of-2012

    Were those the result of liberal progressive Democratic Party leftwing welfare social engineering?
    But I don't accept your premise that a municipality is the same kind of a thing as a corporation. It's right and good for some corporations to go bankrupt (due to competitive overreach, or to "under-reach"), but when a municipality does it, then that is evidence that that municipality had stepped outside of its moral/political boundaries. The collapse of the Soviet Union is arguably the best historical example of this kind of moral and political wrongdoing.

  • Ed




    Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
    Post 14

    Sunday, July 21 - 9:52amSanction this postReply
    Bookmark
    Link
    Edit
    Michael:

    "Among them, the automotive manufactures obtained favorable tax breaks on their own properties ..."


    You are presenting examples of manufacturers seeking favor? relief? from government as capitalism running amok? Indeed... favorable breaks? relief? from whom? In the language of the unions, those were 'breaks.' In the language of those whose ox was being tribally gored in pursuit of filling a bottomless gaping public tribal maw which will forever, because of human nature, only want one thing (more), that was 'relief.' Imagine the world we could build, if only we could tie those who can down to a rack and extract all we want from them. Well, there is no longer any need to imagine, we can look at Detroit.

    Breaks on taxes on the wealth of "their own properties?" The implication again is that all wealth and all property belongs primarily to the tribe. How is that theory working out? How long we going to keep beating that dead carcass?

    Well exactly, that is the case in modern Detroit. It looks great. So what is missing? Everything is in place. Raise taxes to 100% on that collective tribal wealth. The unions are still there. The tribe is still there.

    The crumbling buildings and rusted out hulks are still there. The 'means of production' have been fallow, waiting.

    So what is it that is missing, that has left? The most recent 'encouragment' was this latest screwing over of GM bondholders. Hey, that's a plan to bring back what is missing from Detroit. Not a great plan, but it's a plan... let's stand back and watch the fresh, new rush of folks eager and willing to ... prepay their own ransom in advance. How is that ever going to work?

    I'd try to answer that question, but believe it or not, I'm in the office today, working. I just finished 30 years of applying my engineering degrees from PU and MIT to a much smaller scoped tribal task. I was 'encouraged' to take the path I took by the prevailing political mixed economy goodness winds, and there are plenty of others who I found among some fringe minority on that same path, who had experienced similar 'encouragement' and who had reached a similar conclusion...30 years ago, and even longer.

    That 'encouragement' may not be any part at all of any tribal answer as to why Detroit looks like Detroit. Not concerned about that question in the least. Not my problem, and Detroit et. al. are free to take all the time required to figure this tribal dilemma out. I wish them all the luck in the world.

    Perhaps what is needed is another DC confab, some concern expressed around the crabspread at some Renaissance Weekend affair.

    Well, OK. Whatever the tribe in its collective wisdom thinks is best. With some irony, after now 8 decades of these crap theories leading America into decline, the results are indeed 'social justice' and yet, not the intended flavor.

    Henry Ford's social engineering was indeed social engineering... and the sign of the nation's trajectory from dirt poor rural poverty and a non-existing middle class was indeed 180 degrees opposite the outcome of the current flavor of social engineering based on the forced equalization of tribal outcomes, or at least, tolerating public policies and ideas supportive of that goal.

    Inequality has never been greater than it is today...after 8 decades of these trends in AMerica. At what point do we stop doubling down on failed ideas? It's as if the tribe cannot believe the failure of these ideas, and can do only one thing: endlessly double down on the failure.

    Well, OK. This could continue until the actual fangs, knives, guns, and whips come out. In the current stage of failure of these tribal ideas, the fangs, guns, knives and whips are being spray painted over with propaganda, just like in the Soviet failure of the same ideas.

    The USSR had manufacturers and smokestacks and industries, too. But not everybody is confused about that defining capitalism. nor what path led them to to the trash heap of history. (It wasn't Reagan's dance in the endzone.)

    regards,
    Fred

    (Edited by Fred Bartlett on 7/21, 10:01am)




    Post 15

    Sunday, July 21 - 10:21amSanction this postReply
    Bookmark
    Link
    Edit
    Capitalism and its deleterious impacts is totally out of the way in Detroit.

    Just add Socialism, stand back, and watch the flowers grow. Then, when it is thriving once more, the capitalists will show up to gut it of all value, and turn it back into a trash heap.


    Not that the exact opposite is in fact the script. But, here is the perfect opportunity to prove the point; Detroit's Renaissance from the ashes.

    Did I say "Renaissance?" Now, there is an unfortunate use of a word associated with capitalists once running amok in Detroit. What a blight capitalism once was on the jewel that is Detroit...

    Well, no more. We should stand back and let Socialism work its regenerative Solyndra Green Enrgy magic. Amaze us all.

    'Hoover Dam?' Yea, that was another era in this nation, too, much closer to the wake of Henry Ford and federal overburden below $100B than it was Lyndon Johnson and today's $3800B federal overburden...

    regards,
    Fred



    Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
    Post 16

    Sunday, July 21 - 4:51pmSanction this postReply
    Bookmark
    Link
    Edit
    Michael,
    Many causes can be cited [for productive wealth fleeing to other cities] and all are factors. Among them, the automotive manufactures obtained favorable tax breaks on their own properties while destroying the homes that had been the traditional tax base.
    Are you serious? Allowing automotive manufactures to keep a bit more of their own money caused wealth to flee?
    ----------------
    It is too easy to claim that Detroit is somehow the special product of left wing, liberal, progressive, Democratic Party policies.
    Well, yes, it is. I would have added corruption to the mix, but otherwise, yes, it is a special product of left wing, liberal, progressive, Democratic Party policies.
    -----------------
    If you accept a city as a corporation, then the council's management of the resources are no different from that of any other board of any other corporation.
    Who are you!?!?!?! You don't grasp the difference between an entity that can spend money it doesn't have, levy taxes at gun point, and never has to balance a budget or make a profit and a private corporation? Manage resources to get votes and redistribute the wealth and engage in corruption with public funds... versus manage resources to make a return on capital for the owners in a competitive environment. I can see the difference.
    -------------------
    Should a firm own its own buildings and have adjacent landscaping? Should a firm own a bus or a fleet of cars? Or have its own fire department? Should a city? How do you decide?
    Michael, it is like you have finally untethered from reality. You have nuanced yourself into some kind of la-la land. I should never have to remind you that private firms measure all expenditures as they relate to expected returns and they decide based upon the expected profits. I can't believe this has to be spelled out for you.
    --------------------
    Of course bankruptcy is only a business decision.
    Not for those whose property values are in the toilet. Not for those who have no way to move on. Not for those who worked their entire life for a pension that will now shrink to pennies on the dollar.
    ---------------------
    While not good news, neither is it the end of the world.
    That city is like a wasteland and peoples lives have been ruined. And your post was like a bizarre excuse for the decades of lame actions by corrupt and incompetent politicians.



    Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
    Post 17

    Sunday, July 21 - 7:28pmSanction this postReply
    Bookmark
    Link
    Edit
    Steve,
    Who are you!?!?!?!
    That made me chuckle. Mike's wily, for sure. In Intellectuals and Society, Sowell says that intelligence minus judgment equals intellect. Now, you can take a single, intelligent person, and in some former and limited context, watch them say something so far out in left field that it makes you gasp -- only to have a good experience and a good respect for that person in all present and future contexts. This is what I had with Bill Dwyer regarding the notion of determinism. A phenomenal reasoner, to be sure, yet capable of saying such a(n) heretical thing as that people are determined to act according to their underlying will (their 'intellectual appetite') on the matter.

    Come to think of it now, it isn't so heretical to say that you are determined to do what your will tells you to do -- but this insight escaped Bill (and me) while he was arguing for "value determinism." Though only peripherally related, I submit that this is the issue with Mike right now. Mike hails from Michigan, and therefore has some reason to either defend it or trash it (depending on his history with it). There is also the issue of "the hubris of special experience" -- where someone who comes from a state thinks that there is simply no way that you can no more about the inner workings of his own home state than he does.

    Just like a baseball player who thinks that there is no possibility that a non-baseball player could know more than him about baseball. You can get 'drunk' on special experience, thinking you are some kind of an omniscient demi-god about a subject, be it fishing or shopping or sports or chemistry or whatever. In the end, if you are exercising intelligence without judgment, then you will only come off to others as an intellectual idiot (though the case is limited to the past, and isolated from your other intellectual ideas/communications).

    Ed

    (Edited by Ed Thompson on 7/21, 7:32pm)




    Post 18

    Monday, July 22 - 1:08pmSanction this postReply
    Bookmark
    Link
    Edit
    How is Detroit different from a dozen other cities that went bankrupt?

    How is a city in receivership different from another corporation in receivership?

    If pursuit of profits were a philosopher's stone, no firm would ever fail and every city (county, province, prefecture, department, state, and nation) would. 

    Remember that financial innovator Michael Milken helped stockholders take back control of their businesses from managers who were enriching themselves. Perhaps the most telling case was Milken's work with Roy Disney.  Pursuing profits known to exist in proven markets, the managers at Disney had no idea more innovative than another remake of The Apple Dumpling Gang.

    The Detroit automotive companies did not just take houses, they tore down whole neighborhoods.  The people moved out, of course, to other communities. Many may well have worked in those automotive factories, but they contributed their taxes and lifestyles to other towns entirely, leaving Detroit with those who had little else (or nothing else) to offer, as we call it, "Starnesville."  But 20th Century Motors itself was the source of Starnesville's collapse.




    Post 19

    Monday, July 22 - 2:34pmSanction this postReply
    Bookmark
    Link
    Edit
    Michael, you are using words as if they could hold whatever meaning and truth you hope for, even if it isn't in those words to do that.

    You ask, "How is Detroit different from a dozen other cities that went bankrupt?" Implying that some magical difference will make it NOT an issue of decades of progressive idiocy as others have rightfully labeled it. But wasn't your origional point that tax breaks to auto companies was the big problem? (see the section you emphasized in post #12). Were other bankrupt cities 'victims' of tax breaks to their local businesses? What are you trying to establish by saying Detroit is not different from others? One of us has lost the thread of your argument.

    You ask, "How is a city in receivership different from another corporation in receivership?" What does that have to do with your initial arguments? Or with anything I or anyone else on this thread argued?
    --------------
    If pursuit of profits were a philosopher's stone, no firm would ever fail and every city (county, province, prefecture, department, state, and nation) would.
    Philosopher's stone? Return to reality. Both private organizations and governments need to budget. The governments have to live within expected revenues, have fall-backs (e..g., 'Rainy Day funds') and recognize the limits set by the Laffer Curve. Private firms do the same, but their stream of income is profits in a competitive environment. Why are you asking such basic Econ 101 questions - Hell, they are just household budget simple.




    Post to this threadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page
    [an error occurred while processing this directive]


    User ID Password or create a free account.