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Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 6:00amSanction this postReply
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That I enjoyed this joke explains why I generally do not get along with most self-styled "freethinkers."  Had I posted this on the local freethought group's discussion list, a massive flame war would have erupted picking apart every line of text.  Sadly, most "freethinkers" do not think highly of freedom.

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Post 1

Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 6:16amSanction this postReply
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Don't you just love the "piling on" that occurs in those groups?   I know exactly what you mean, Luke.

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Monday, May 14, 2007 - 12:46amSanction this postReply
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This was great! Loved it!


Love your new pic, too, Teresa. Say, I got a Baby Alive doll and an Easy Bake Oven...wanna come over and play?  :-)

Erica


Post 3

Monday, May 14, 2007 - 3:29amSanction this postReply
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LOL! 

Sounds like fun! :cD


Post 4

Monday, May 14, 2007 - 8:44pmSanction this postReply
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It was interesting and funny.

That all aside, let us consider the facts.
"the stock market has rebounded to record levels and more Americans than ever are participating in these markets. "


As Objectivists are consumate economists, it should be obvious to all that the stock market is fueled right now by inflation, not by real growth.  Americans are dumping their dollars for anything, the way that Brazilians used to put their "savings" in radios and refrigerators.  Right now the price of gold is at $668 and silver is at $13.  Do you imagine that is because more people are having their teeth filled?
Pick a random rightwing goldbug blog.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_03/wallenwein072603.html
"They can sell the 316 billion reserve dollars they racked up by running their trade surplus with the US - for euros.
When the Chinese sell dollars and buy euros, the euro will rise against the dollar."
-- July 26, 2003

Today, May 14, the euro is at $1.35.  (So gold is at  €493. )  Relative to the euro, the yen, etc., the "performance" of gold (so-called) is not that spectacular.  Relative the dollar, the facts are the facts: A is A.
... gas prices are high because there's increased demand in other parts of the world, and because a small handful of noisy idiots are more worried about polar bears and beachfront property than your economic security. ...

Granted, again, that gasoline prices are rising relative to the dollar because the dollar is weak.   However, the second part of that about the polar bears is a non-sequitar. I remember... Like Winston Smith, I remember that the Alaska Pipleline was supposed to make America independent of foreign oil.  Yet, at the same time, I also know that the bogeyman of "foreign oil" is a conservative shibboleth.  As capitalists, Objectivists know that world peace is causally effected by world trade. 

It is important that we Objectivists remain clear on the distinction between the wahabbi terrorists who followed Ussma bin Laden and the state of Iraq which was -- was not; was; was not -- the catspaw of Washington D.C.'s war against Iran... against Iraq... against Iran...  Bismark and von Moltke would be confortable with the present world situation: they would understand it.  So, too, would have Pope Julian II, or Charles V, or Tallyrand or Demetrius Poliorketes.  This has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with chess pieces on a world sized board.
You're incapable of seeing things through the long lens of history, the way our enemies do.

They were not my enemies until Dubya made them so.    I am a capitalist and a good merchent never argues religion with his client... even as he avoids the sanction of the victim. More to the point, "our" enemies did not go to American universities, so they have absolute moral codes and they live and die by their understanding of right and wrong, whereas our post modern governmentalist stupidity factories have disarmed us intellectually and sliced our prefrontal lobes into free-floating masses of cells with their cultural, moral, epistemological and metaphysical relativism.
... At least they seem to have done that the vast majority of "us."  Objectivsts are not fooled.

A is A.
This Dubya Shrugging was really Mr. Thompson's swan song as he hands over the reigns of control to Dr. Floyd Ferris and Cuffy Meigs: Dr. Candolezza Rice and Dick Cheney.
 

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 5/14, 8:46pm)


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Monday, May 14, 2007 - 9:03pmSanction this postReply
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While I fear that you may be right that inflation relative to foreign currencies is driving the stock market, Michael, your assertion that m*slims were not your enemies prior to Bush is belied by their actions and their calls "to slay the infidel where one finds him."

Or are you a fidel?

Just because a bully hasn't turned on you yet is hardly a reason to assume he's your friend.

Amrika Akbar!

Ted

Post 6

Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 6:53pmSanction this postReply
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Ted, Muslims -- all one billion of them -- were no more nor any less my enemies than were or are Christians, communists, or conservatives.

There are good people and bad people.  Good people can have bad -- irrational or anti-rational; self-contradictory; unempirical even anti-empirical -- religions, but a good philosophy will not redeem a bad person.  How do you evaluate the fact that John D. Rockefeller claimed to be Baptist?  In several classes, recently, we coincidentally studied about Ibn al-Khaldun, whom we all know now through the so-called "Laffer Curve."

About 1000 years ago, when I was in Young Americans for Freedom, one of the guys from Case Tech dropped out of college and joined the Marines.  "Why?" his buddies demanded to know.  "I want to go to Viet Nam and kill communists," he said.  "We have plenty of communists right here!" they said.  "Yes," he replied, "but it's illegal to kill them."

If I wanted religious fanatics for enemies, I'd walk up the street to the closest CHURCH, which is a mile closer than the local mosque. And for that matter, my next-door neighbor is my township trustee and he is a liberal and likely a Democrat.  If I wanted enemies, I could start with him.  That is "if"...  which I do not. 

I understand perfectly well Ayn Rand's "sanction of the victim."  As I recall the solution, it was to stop being a victim yourself. The solution was not to go out and victimize people who mistake their sorites for syllogisms.


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Post 7

Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 8:07pmSanction this postReply
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Michael, with all your erudition, which you know I both enjoy and appreciate, I find it incomprehensible that you cannot deign to divine any difference between the pacifist antimilitarism of Jesus and the murderous evil of Mo.

I do understand that you want to say faith is faith, and so poison is poison. But there is a difference between morphine and cyanide, and to deny that difference is neither right nor reasonable.

Shall I appeal to authority and ask whether Rand said "Israel versus isl@m, two theocracies - a pox on both their houses"?

As for the remark on syllogisms versus sorites - let's just restrict the argument to the (possibly) empty set of those people who live by Jesus' own words - "judge not...turn the other cheek...love your enemy" and the throatcutter's: "lay in wait for [the infidels] and slay them where you find them." These quotes are neither prejudicial nor uncharacteristic - and I know that you know this. If one takes literal belief in the words of these two people as the standard of judging them or their systems (the same standard we apply to Rand, BTW, her words, not her follower's hypocrisies) then while I will grant that you can legitimately say that while the "true" Christian may or may not be your friend, the true m*slim is your deadly enemy, by his own definition, whether you chose to acknowledge it or not. Why do you persist in saying that the man who sincerely vows to kill you is not your enemy - if you chose not to recognize his enmity? In what other realm do you judge the facts by your own (apparently generous) wishes?

You can call every inconsistent Christian, cretin or communist you like your enemy or not. But do you know something about isl@m that the mullahs themselves don't know? Why will you not recognize that the faithful m*slim is not and cannot be your friend? Your insistence on whistling through the desert is not only bizarre - it's condescending to your would-be-killers.

At least have the decency to grant the cutthroats the dignity of the sincerity of their malice.

Ted Keer

(Edited by Ted Keer
on 5/16, 4:34pm)


Post 8

Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 9:00pmSanction this postReply
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For the most part the Christianity we are familiar with here in the U.S. is a Christianity that rejected state religions, ran from establishment religion. Part of the heritage of libertarianism and anarchism owes a debt to the thinking of Christians in the U.S. that desired only freedom for themselves and everyone else to believe and practice the religion of their choice. I do not think it is even possible for a devout Muslim to separate church from state. Everyone MUST be subjugated to Allah's will by whatever means. That is my understanding. It is foolish to fear the first and a hundred times as foolish not to fear the second.

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