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Wednesday, March 24 - 6:02amSanction this postReply
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I re-examined this site's list of logical fallacies in an attempt to isolate the common assumption behind the list of italicized comments in the joke. The best I could do was:

The Appeal to Reverence: Replaces relevant evidence for a conclusion with a bid for respect for traditions.

In other words, the comments assume that because people have basically been forced for a very long time -- due to government coercion -- to enjoy the benefits of wealth redistribution, they should support any and all forms of such wealth redistribution.

I could think of other applicable fallacies such as "The Fallacy of Equivocation," but perhaps others would like to share their own takes on this joke.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 3/24, 6:03am)




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Wednesday, March 24 - 7:43amSanction this postReply
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Could you post the original Russian version, please?

Thanks.



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Post 2

Wednesday, March 24 - 7:57amSanction this postReply
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Прошла зима, настало лето,
И солнце светит по-прежнему.
Спасибо партии за это,
И лично - товарищу Брежневу!



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Wednesday, March 24 - 8:29amSanction this postReply
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лол!



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Wednesday, March 24 - 10:01amSanction this postReply
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Well, if you like it ...

Original Revolutionary song:

Смело мы в бой пойдём.
За власть Советов
И как один умрём.
В борьбе за это.


(We shall bravely go to the battle for Soviet power
And we all to the last man shall die fighting for this.)

Parody:

Смело мы в бой пойдём
За суп с картошкой
И повара убъём
Столовой ложкой.


(We shall bravely go to the battle for potato soup
And we shall kill the cook with the table spoon.)

The parody describes how the socialism works in very few words, but unfortunately English translation does not produce the same effect. I tried it before.




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Post 5

Wednesday, March 24 - 11:13amSanction this postReply
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SWEET HOME ALABAMA




Post 6

Wednesday, March 24 - 12:34pmSanction this postReply
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That is ... surreal.



Post 7

Wednesday, March 24 - 4:41pmSanction this postReply
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 "The Fallacy of Equivocation," was the first one that popped to my mind, Luke.  The premise is: if the government does it, it ain't socialism, or that socialism is good. I'm not sure what they're trying to say with this.

The overall take is pure nihilism in that kind of support. Infuriatingly ignorant.




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Wednesday, March 24 - 4:44pmSanction this postReply
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LOL, Maria, I'm so stealing that link right now. LMAO.



Post 9

Wednesday, March 24 - 6:28pmSanction this postReply
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I think instead of abstaining from using public services, I think one should try to use them as much as possible in a way that pushes further to bankrupt them. More for the would be producers, less resources that would have otherwise gone to leeches. Increased taxes? Puts a further burden on Rearden (the financial supporter of our enemy is our enemy).

I highly considering to vote with my feet.



Post 10

Wednesday, March 24 - 7:02pmSanction this postReply
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So you favor the Cloward-Piven strategy, Dean?



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Post 11

Wednesday, March 24 - 8:37pmSanction this postReply
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There were these idiots in the libertarian movement who proclaimed to all and wide their adherence to "Living a Libertarian Life."  This meant no FDIC bank accounts, no drivers licence, no vehicle registration, no social security benefits, etc.,  which meant, in turn, reliance upon the state public transportation systems, loss of vehicles seized by police the first time they were pulled over, etc.

No one - apart perhaps for some wilderness-living nut cases - managed to actually make a go of it.  Those who apparently did actually depended upon others utilyzing the state services for them.  It was total nonsense, but worse, it was pernicious nonsense, in that all those who attempted to practice it found themselves impoverished and incapable of promoting any real change - except for a few people, such as Wendy McElroy, who managed to make a career out of being holier than thou and selling books, articles and interviews to prove it.

I wrote a parody of it for a libertarian speech contest at a local libertarian convention, in which I substituted Loony for Libertarian, as in a person who is convinced that living on the moon will solve every problem.  So, they live in high places to get closer to the moon.  They build great towers for the same reason.  And they live a Loonie life.  Unfortunately for them (not for the rest of us), the Live a Loonie Life movement (from whence we get the term "lunatic," BTW, ) came to a sad end, without ever making it to the moon.

Of course, other people did make it to the moon.  But they got there by means of rational science and engineering, not by "Living a Loonie Life."

I didn't win the speech contest, BTW, although I think, based on the expressions of some of the audience, that I came very close to convincing them to give up at least one central libertarian tenet - the non-aggression principle.

In fact, a couple people who I associated with that movement invited me to lunch, much to my surprise.  They were very polite and asked me to expound on my opinions until one of them looked at her watch, made a hand signal, and they both got up and walked away without another word.   I later discovered that our lunch ensured that I would not be a the conference at a critical juncture, where I might have made a go at dissent.




Post 12

Wednesday, March 24 - 10:50pmSanction this postReply
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I once had a liberal leftist chide me for my hypocrisy, since I had attended a state university financed with public money. I asked him if he thought I should stop using the city streets as well, since they too are financed with public money. He immediately saw the silliness in his argument, and shut up. The fact that I think the streets should be privately owned does not imply that I must stop using them, any more than the fact that I think the government should have different laws means that I must leave the country in order to avoid being a hypocrite.

- Bill



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Thursday, March 25 - 8:11amSanction this postReply
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"I didn't win the speech contest, BTW, although I think, based on the expressions of some of the audience, that I came very close to convincing them to give up at least one central libertarian tenet - the non-aggression principle."

That's a keeper.



Post 14

Saturday, March 27 - 11:26amSanction this postReply
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We have already discussed on this board my decision not to receive Social Security payments.  I am almost 75 and my wife is almost 83 and we have not signed up for SS or Medicare and do not intend to. 

Beginning in 2014 or 2016 there will be a line on the IRS form asking if we have insurance and if not pay a fine. 

Wondering what you would do under the circumstances?    Thanks for the ideas. 




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Saturday, March 27 - 12:06pmSanction this postReply
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Have you considered moving to Hong Kong?



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Post 16

Saturday, March 27 - 12:59pmSanction this postReply
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Dale,

Ayn Rand paid her income taxes.

Speaking of the military draft, a much more odious law, she said in Capitalism, The Unknown Ideal, "There is, however, one moral aspect of the issue that needs clarification. Some young men seem to labor under the misapprehension that since the draft is a violation of their rights, compliance with the draft law would constitute a moral sanction of that violation. This is a serious error. A forced compliance is not a sanction. All of us are forced to comply with many laws that violate our rights, but so long as we advocate the repeal of such laws, our compliance does not constitute a sanction. Unjust laws have to be fought ideologically; they cannot be fought or corrected by means of mere disobedience and futile martyrdom. To quote from an editorial on this subject in the April 1967 issue of Persuasion: 'One does not stop the juggernaut by throwing oneself in front of it. . . .'"

In many areas, rational self-interest requires doing the least that can be done to do to stay legal, while not risking freedom, or getting worked up enough to destroy your happiness.

Besides, all things 'Obamacare' could change greatly between now and 2014.

Enjoy your life to the fullest, if only to spite them. :-)



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Saturday, March 27 - 5:09pmSanction this postReply
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Steve,

But how do you overcome the urge to spit in their eye?

The most frustrating thing about this whole monstrous new law is the helplessness one feels about doing something about it. I'm tired of sitting still, myself, but there are so few options we have.

Let's face it, they had no problems ignoring 162 million people. They don't give a damn. They just want what they want.

jt



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Post 18

Saturday, March 27 - 5:40pmSanction this postReply
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Don't focus on them. Focus on things that increase the probabilities of replacing them with fiscal conservatives. Don't ruminate about the idiots in office. Celebrating each drop in their poll numbers is much better. Feeling hopeless in face of all the damage they have done gets us no where. Imagining what a much improved congress could do to turn this all around is more invigorating. Taking action is very uplifting - like joining some Tea Party group. Sometimes it IS all about the mental approach.



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Sunday, March 28 - 10:45amSanction this postReply
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Apparently most of you did not understand my request for ideas.

I want to know if I should buy insurance or pay the fine?   What would be most selfish?   




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