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Post 20

Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 10:16pmSanction this postReply
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Jennifer-

I considered this, but Food and Parenting are aspects of life. If we wanted to be accurate, we should simply call it "SOLOSexuality" and discuss honestly how Objectivism relates to sex (other than reading the naughty parts in The Fountainhead). Anyway, how is this any different than my idea for SOLOBlack? I thought that sexuality was supposed to be an inborn trait, or at least something not to be considered significant as it pertains to philosophy.



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Post 21

Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 11:14pmSanction this postReply
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Everybody has encountered problems peculiar to his or her sexuality that are likely to be irrelevant and uninteresting to those with other sexualities. For example, the most destructive challenge in my life started with my ex-wife's post-partum depression. That is not a problem that a gay male would ever encounter. In time (I'm too busy now) I'll want to do a kind of de-briefing and discussion on how to deal with post-partum depression problems, how to avoid grave mistakes (such as some of mine) in dealing with it etc. To avoid boring gender-feminist whinings, I will want the discussion to take place in an open, Randian forum. So at that point, if there is no SOLO-HET yet, I'll start it. I'll be glad of the precedent of SOLO-HOMO.



Post 22

Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 11:32pmSanction this postReply
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I have some comments to offer on Log Cabin Republicanism, but I don't want to hijack this thread, join me here if interested.



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Post 23

Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 11:43pmSanction this postReply
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I guess this comes under the heading, "You can't win." A while ago some straights were grizzling that there was too much gay stuff on SOLOHQ. So we create a forum where gays can discuss gay stuff away from the offended sensibilities of said straights, & *some* straights are still grizzling. "Collectivism"? Collectivism is the enforced subordination of the individual to the group. Does not apply here. SOLO Homo is entirely voluntary. Folk will sign up if they think they'll get benefit from it. If some straights are concerned they'll miss the best threads in town, they're free to join. If they don't want to join but still want to grizzle, they're free to try the radical approach of "live & let live." That, of course, would require them to get a life first!

Rock on, Jason! :-)

Linz




Post 24

Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 11:47pmSanction this postReply
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All I want to know, is what is the motivation to needlessly Balkanize beyond necessity? I can see where Parenting, Economics, Food, Law, etc. all have a place in separate discussion groups, but a special group just because you're gay? It really is ridiculous, if you think about it.

I can see where SEXUALITY in general is a relevant topic, but particular sexual orientation is almost entirely irrelevant, and it really speaks to the "victimization" ideal when we state that there needs to be a separate Objectivist group because you sleep with the same sex instead of the opposite sex.



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Post 25

Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 11:55pmSanction this postReply
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Jason,

Congratulations and good luck with the new group. 

Tenya 




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Post 26

Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 11:58pmSanction this postReply
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Balkanize? They're not splitting off, it's just another topic with which to organize discussions. Another drawer in the SOLOHQ filing cabinet. I'm not gay but I'd love to join this group. The proud gays here are some of the coolest people on this site. I can join right? No I'm not switchin' teams...



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Post 27

Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 11:59pmSanction this postReply
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Ahem... er...

Whaddya all think about a SOLO PURR section?

Michael




Post 28

Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 12:14amSanction this postReply
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Collectivism? No.  An identity politics of sorts? Perhaps.



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Post 29

Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 12:42amSanction this postReply
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Oh, big deal everyone. The whole idea here is to have a forum that's devoted to a specific issue and all its manifestations, without having that issue "pervade" the general forum of SOLO. More general-interest sexuality (including gay) issues will appear on the general forum, while the deeper, narrower stuff that only appeals to gays can be fully explored on its own ground.

It was obvious from SOLOC 4 that Jason has very intricate thoughts on matters homosexual, so he is the right man to run this. Jason, best of luck with the endeavor.

Alec




Post 30

Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 1:05amSanction this postReply
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Fine, identity politics, if you will. Forgive my lapse of proper word-usage, however, the sheer language of the supporters of this idea, such as that there are issues "that appeal to gays" only, that there is such a thing as "gay stuff" and the like is only going to further stereotypes. M. Reed's point that there are issues pertaining to a given individual's sexuality that we may not find interesting is true, but not relevant. Let's insert "skin color" for "sexuality. Therefore, will a supporter of this "gay issues" (I thought we eschewed such identity foolishness) board please tell me the difference if someone started SOLOBlack? There are no issues gays face that have to be separated from the rest of us, like so many different identity clubs.



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Post 31

Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 4:07amSanction this postReply
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Let me congratulate you, Jason, on the establishment of this group. 

Of course, it's not as if this issue is foreign to SOLO.  Check out SOLO's credo, where one will find this sentence:

We acknowledge that Ayn Rand made mistakes; that she didnít answer every question that can be asked; that she was wrong about some matters of considerable existential moment, such as homosexuality ...

Given the history of the treatment of this issue within the Objectivist movement, SOLO even offers for sale a monograph (by somebody I know very well) entitled Ayn Rand, Homosexuality, and Human Liberation---precisely because its founder wanted to focus on one of those "matters of considerable existential moment." 

The establishment of this group won't balkanize, won't ghetto-ize, won't fragment SOLO anymore than groups on economics, education, or food.  Just as one doesn't need to be an economist, an educator, or a chef to participate in those groups, one doesn't need to be a card-carrying pink-o to join and participate in SOLO Homo.  It's clear that the group is centered on an issue; it does not require participants to identify with a specifically defined "collective."  It might simply bring together all the other threads surrounding this topic.

"You can't win"?  In my book, Jason, you've already won.  Shine on...




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Post 32

Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 5:16amSanction this postReply
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Steven Druckenmiller,

I fail to see the problem with making a "SOLO Black". It seems kind of silly to make it though, since so few people would be interested in communicating there. On the other hand, a good number of people will value the existence of "SOLO Homo"- and they are free to use it now- and that is all that matters.

Edit: Hmmm... maybe more importantly: Linz, Jeff, & Joe own this place, and they approved of it. That is all that matters. I do find it annoying, hypocritical, and sometimes comical when people who segregate themselves complain about being segregated.
(Edited by Dean Michael Gores
on 5/04, 5:22am)




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Post 33

Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 5:24amSanction this postReply
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You're all reading far too much into this. Jason started this group to improve his chances of getting laid, something we can all relate to. Give a guy a break for Galt's sake!



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Post 34

Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 7:18amSanction this postReply
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Thank you so much to everyone who has taken the time to respond on this thread and particularly to those who responded to Steven D's comments.  As is usual, you all get it. 

FYI, Sciabarra, I've read the 'homonograph' and it's in fact how I discovered SOLO.  So thank you to you and Linz for that. 

Steven, I nod to your comments in (perhaps surprising) sympathy but disagree entirely with your conclusions.  The truth is, being gay *is* an aspect of my life, goddamnit.  It influences more than you'd think (*especially* if I intend to find a mate).  It does not make me who I am but it certainly is a part of my identity.  And it's fundamental, meaning it influences many aspects of the structure of my life.  Your comments about collectivism are completely misplaced and have already been answered well on this thread.  And where oh where in any of *my* writing on this topic have you seen anything about "sticking together"?  Coming together, yes, but that's different than "sticking" together.  The former is about shared interests and discussions, the latter about ghetto-izing oneself. 

And the truth is, being gay *is* different than the color of one's skin.  *I've* never pretended otherwise, and my writing so far on this site on this subject has demonstrated as much.  As I stated above, it influences a lot more than just who you boink.

The only thing I can say is, join the group and see for yourself if you think it's unnecessary. 

Regarding "SOLO-Sexuality",  I did not feel comfortable with leading such a group because a) the discussions I plan to spearhead as group leader will be in the aspect of homosexuality - you can do that when you head a group, and it's the aspect from which all of my research, knowledge, and experience comes; b) I did not want to be accused of "hijacking" a discussion of sexuality with the focus on that aspect; and c) there is much more to be discussed then just the narrowly scientific "sexuality."

I'm qualified to discuss the aspect of sexuality I plan to focus on - and if Tim Sturm is to be believed, I'll soon become even more qualified.  One can only hope.

To those straight members interested in the group, if I haven't made myself clear let me state again that the group is for everyone interested and not just to gay and lesbian members.  Though I daresay you should probably "come out" as a straight when you join.  And David Elmore, I've heard you say "fabulous" and you're allowed to use it - though speculations may follow. Come to think of it, maybe we need a special survival guide for you straight fellow travelers; it will of course include our initiation rites. :-)

Jason




Post 35

Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 7:48amSanction this postReply
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Jennifer,

Not a chance ... unless ... unless Jason D. would put on cowboy boots and do his best John Wayne imitation. ;-)





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Post 36

Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 7:57amSanction this postReply
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Michael,

You already have a SOLO PURR section.

It's called SOLOhq. ;-)




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Post 37

Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 8:45amSanction this postReply
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Joke with a dose of rat poison alert



Methinks Steven doth protest too much...

Anything you want to get off your chest, Steve?

//;-)



Michael




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Post 38

Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 9:05amSanction this postReply
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I could only imagine the fury that would be created by much needed Solo Females group.  No. I ain't volunteering to lead that one.  I may be a dipshit, but I ain't stooopid.  ;-)


*purr alert*
kitten jumps into the safety of the colonel's arms and is carried away to the kitchen, where photographers have been banned.




Post 39

Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 10:40amSanction this postReply
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Maybe we should start SOLOBlack once we actually have a black person posting here heheheh...



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