RoR: Forum

Maybe he will buy his own island. Near Fiji. I hear thats pretty much freedom, unless you are on Lost and then BF Skinner is doing behavioral sutides on you.

$

Post 1

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 12:00pm

Ha! I remember voting for Ventura 7 years ago when I was 19. It was my first voting experience and the third party won! It just goes to show how much can be accomplished with the democratic system when the rest of the state doesn't bother to show up to vote.

Poor Jesse. I did enjoy his libertarian tirades and his "Jesse Checks" income tax rebates (read: bribing me with my own money.) You have to admire the man that wanted to change the state for the better. It's too bad no one told him before inauguration that the governor is only a servant to the majority and the loudest lobbyists (not to mention a media target.) Or mention to him that his state was full of intransigent welfare-statist somnambulists...

I bet he starts up his own banana republic in the Caribbean, with a rifle in every home and a prostitute on every corner!

Post 2

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 1:02pm

We can laugh all we want, but who else but an ultra-rich, popular person could even start their own alternative to the US?

Post 3

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 7:21pm

Ventura Shrugged ???

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 7:55pm

I'm from Minnesota (Ventura's state). At first, I was dismayed by Ventura's statement that folks who are smart enough to get into college, are smart enough to figure out how to pay for it. Then, I found Rand. The rest is history.

Jesse says that he passed "the quiz" as a Libertarian -- I say: Hooray (I'm guessing he means the quiz at: http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html)! Jesse says that he's leaving the evermore fascist US -- I say: Hooray, and good on you, brother of reason, freedom, capitalism and individualism!

If popular folk (like Jesse) make a statement about the trend in politics -- a decisive trend toward statism, and away from individualism -- then I applaud their behavior. The spotlight on statism never shined so bright.

Hooray, Jesse! You are a freedom fighter!

Ed

Post 5

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 7:40am

Ed Thompson

"Jesse says that he's leaving the evermore fascist US -- I say: Hooray, and good on you, brother of reason, freedom, capitalism and individualism!"

But where can he go? I recognize that the US has been moving away from freedom and individualism since the beginning, but my honest question is "where is there better?". I really have no idea.

Post 6

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 8:58am

Ricky,

There are about 10 countries with more economic freedom than we have here in the US (e.g. New Zealand). Personally, I take economic freedom to be the barometer of freedom in a country. "Political freedom" can be faked. This occurs when we are given only 2 choices: frying pan or fire. This occurred in the last presidential debates -- when Libertarian candidate Badnarik was taken to jail for trying to participate in a taxpayer-funded "non-partisan" debate.

In contrast, economic freedom is exactly as it seems. It isn't riddled with false dichotomies and behind the scenes double-dealing -- like political freedom is. Bush & Co. have shown that you can (for at least 5 years) run a democracy as if it were an aristocracy. That you can annually out-spend every preceding president (FDR & LBJ included), and get away with it -- somehow. That you can adopt policies that will serve to increase our decreasing energy prices, and get away with it -- somehow.

What would happen if Ventura shrugged? I honestly don't know -- but any, however small, spotlight on our current parallel with the Weimar Republic would be a benefit.

Ricky, I believe that the Heritage Foundation analyzes and compares economies. There are comparative studies out there (sorry, I don't have the references with me).

Ed

Post 7

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 10:11am

Ed

Thanks for the pointer. I looked over at Heritage Foundation and found one chart that lists the top 10 "Freest Economies" but with no explanation as to how they were the most free. This lead me to search for "freest economy", and came up with a nice article on cato.org.

Free

The top countries are:

#1 Hong Kong
#2 Singapore
#3 New Zealand, Switzerland, Britain, United States tied

Now, I need to look into their scoring deeper, but seeing Britain and Switzerland in there makes me think certain factors are outweighing things like high income or personal taxes, which I consider important.

So, by this measure, Jesse must move to either Hong Kong or Singapore to improve his situation.

Post 8

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 10:05pm

Ricky,

To clear the disparity in what I said (10 countries do it better) and what you found (2 do), I was focusing on only 2 categories: taxes and inflation. About a year ago I checked out the OECD countries and found that about 10 countries had lower taxes and about 10 countries had lower inflation -- than the US did. On these 2 key things, we weren't (in fiscal 2003-2004, I think) in the top 10 worldwide.

Ed

Post 9

Friday, October 21, 2005 - 9:31am

Singapore and Hong King - economic freedom, maybe. Political freedom, a definite back seat to the countries listed as 2. You might find lower tax rates in many places, but if overall opportunity, prosperity, and security are lower the tax rate is meaningless.

Post 10

Friday, October 21, 2005 - 10:24am

Good points, Kurt.

Ed

Post 11

Monday, October 24, 2005 - 5:57am

Ed,

One can game political freedom to some extent, but in the absence of certain "political" freedoms, such as freedom of expression, economic freedom can be gamed too. Singapore is a case in point: the government has monopolies on "chokepoints" such as the airport and the Internet (the latter is completely censored) and is a major player in even those parts of the economy that are not dominated by "connected" individuals - for example, 30% of Singapore's population live in government-owned housing.

Although nominal taxes are low, the political class exacts tribute by preferential government treatment of those who "do business" at inflated cost - in effect an "unofficial" tax - with "private enterprises" owned by powerful politicians. For example, the political appointee who runs the government's monopoly airport also owns the "private company" that transports goods from factories to the airport, at exorbitant rates. As the government official in charge of the airport, he decides when goods are shipped by air in and out of the country - and if someone makes the mistake of hiring a different local shipper within Singapore, he finds his goods delayed at the airport.

There is always more than one way to game the stats. And of course Ventura would be the last person on Earth to live in a place where the media and the Internet are censored, as they are in Hong Kong or Singapore.

My bet would be on someplace uncensored and sunny. Bonaire?

Post 12

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 2:17am