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Post 40

Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 3:28pmSanction this postReply
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Teresa, your vicious ad hominem attacks against me are sophomoric. I am finished arguing with you over this forum topic.

Post 41

Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 5:46pmSanction this postReply
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Whatever.

Send my regards to the Poobah, and all the other speculative handwringers of fascist bent.

(Edited by Teresa Summerlee Isanhart on 6/23, 5:55pm)


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Post 42

Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 7:55amSanction this postReply
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The ability of certain people to convincingly portray characters very different from themselves is precisely why we call them "actors."

If an actor had to sympathize with the ideas and values of a character in order to portray him competently, then I guess Anthony Hopkins was unqualified to play a cannibalistic serial killer convincingly -- unless he himself had secret, cannibalistic, serial-killing, nihilistic longings.

I guess Spencer Tracy, who had a reputation for carousing and drinking, was unqualified to convincingly portray the straight-arrow Father Flanagan. Similarly, I guess Bing Crosby, reputedly a cold, cruel man in private to his children, was unqualified to convincingly portray the priest in The Bells of St. Mary's and Going My Way.

Indeed, I guess that all the actors who have ever played religious fanatics were unqualified to do so unless they shared fanatical views -- or that those who played saints (Joan of Arc, Thomas More, etc.) were unqualified, too, since their private lives were often anything but saintly.

Likewise, I guess all those actors who have ever portrayed screen action heroes (except perhaps Audie Murphy) were unqualified to do so, because they themselves may not have lived heroically. (Incidentally, despite his heroism, Murphy was a BAD actor.)

Finally, I guess Ayn Rand and Frank O'Connor should not have taken, and could not have played, roles in Cecil B. DeMille's King of Kings with any conviction, unless they believed in Christianity.



Post 43

Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 12:45pmSanction this postReply
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Oh, but did any of them have a hand in producing those films??  The horror of some resides in claims of that capacity, not the acting.

Post 44

Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 5:24pmSanction this postReply
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Pee Cough?

Erik, Teresa, can't we all just get along?

Even though I happen to think Teresa's being a bit too generous to Jolie, I don't see the reason for your insults or her escalation. It's a movie, that's not getting made, that none of us has a say in...

Ted

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Post 45

Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 6:58pmSanction this postReply
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How can I be "too" generous toward a complete stranger?  I think it only proper to extend any benefit of my doubts to someone working toward a goal, such as making this movie. Unfortunately, Pee Cough, and his minions, view with suspicion anyone who doesn't think, act, or live, as they do. 

 Remember, tolerance and benevolence aren't "virtues" to these people, and it sure does show.

Jolie is being viewed as an infidel by people who, most likely, have never accomplished anything worth a tinker's dam.  A bunch of arm chair quarterback critics without a pot to piss in, all taking their cues from a lazy, half crazy, "intellectual heir."  

When this movie gets made, and the publicity buzz gears up, I can't even describe how embarrassing it is for me to think of what people will find when they look for more information about Objectivism. The Vallents, and moronic, nit-witted true believers. They're humiliating to Rand and her brilliance.  They're humiliating to the heroic, reasoning nature of the human race. 


Post 46

Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 9:12pmSanction this postReply
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Ted, I usually don't care to defend myself on such matters as these, but the fact is the only one who is insulting anyone here is Teresa. All she does in reply to my posts is to hurl out a legion of completely rude and utterly unfounded accusations against me PERSONALLY, thus bringing the level of this forum topic down into the gutter. I only mentioned how nauseating it is to have to repeat something that shouldn't have to be repeated. I bore no ill will towards her, and yet all she can do is insult and impune. No thanks, I prefer civility.

Post 47

Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 11:05pmSanction this postReply
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In Bull Durham, Kevin Costner's character Crash Davis says: "I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone." In JFK, he plays a lawyer who believes it was a conspiracy.


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Post 48

Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 11:13pmSanction this postReply
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Erik, Teresa, can't we all just get along?

Even though I happen to think Teresa's being a bit too generous to Jolie, I don't see the reason for your insults or her escalation. It's a movie, that's not getting made, that none of us has a say in.



Can't you see what is going on, Ted? Just look at the passion, the intensity, and the energy in the fighting between Teresa and Erik. It's getting really hot in here.

Have you noticed how Erik talks about going "down into the gutter" with Teresa? What kind of feelings are they hiding?

Of course, you can imagine it happening right now. You can feel it in your body. It smacks, pushes, and thrusts.The energy increases, and the friction increases. The heartbeat gets faster, and the breathing gets heavier. Then, it explodes everywhere.

(Edited by Chris Baker on 6/24, 11:20pm)


Post 49

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 3:39amSanction this postReply
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Embarrassing. Humiliating.

Claim #1:  If Jolie is in any way, shape, or form involved in the production of Atlas Shrugged it will NOT do Objectivism any justice.

No back up. Just a claim.

Claim #2: It is not the acting I would have an issue with, it's the fact that her philosophical premises are based on altruism, socialism, and collectivism that is the cancer of most of the Hollywood elite. With that said, how can she possibly be true to the novel and idea's represented therein unless she truly understands and grasps Objectivism and its ethics.
 
More claims. No substantive back up, other than Jolie is an infidel to the cause, which is, of course, another claim.  

Claim #3: As I stated in a previous post, it's not the acting of Jolie, but her being involved in the production, which as most people know in film, means creative license.

Claims, claims, and more claims.  Then the claims get turned on me, because Erik cannot be clear with his objections, other than make the claim than an infidel will screw up his vision of the project.

Embarrassing.


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Post 50

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 10:54amSanction this postReply
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Then the claims get turned on me
Yes, we know that both you and Erik are very turned on right now.


Post 51

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 2:45pmSanction this postReply
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"When this movie gets made, and the publicity buzz gears up, I can't even describe how embarrassing it is for me to think of what people will find when they look for more information about Objectivism. The Vallents, and moronic, nit-witted true believers. They're humiliating to Rand and her brilliance. They're humiliating to the heroic, reasoning nature of the human race."

Well, I can certainly sympathize with this, but the same thing happens now if you look for Rand on the internet, if you mail in one of those cards, or even if you look next to her works on the bookshelf. Rand invited this when she named Peikoff as heir and executor. I think it was her last joke on the world, based especially on his accomplishments since her death.

I still don't quite get what's going on between you & Erik here. You see Jolie as a passionate, accomplished person who gets things done (I agree) and he sees her as an altruist happy to work with statists in order to accomplish her ends (plausible) but even if your and his claims both are true, this doesn't mean that the UN will self destruct/achieve world dominion and it doesn't mean that Valliant's book will disappear from the shelves.

I simply make it a point when I introduce people to Rand to let them know that she died 25 years ago and that there are a lot of bizarre and unhappy people out there who like to speak as authorities on her behalf. So far, I haven't created any crab people.

Ted



Post 52

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 5:59pmSanction this postReply
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I still don't quite get what's going on between you & Erik here. You see Jolie as a passionate, accomplished person who gets things done (I agree) and he sees her as an altruist happy to work with statists in order to accomplish her ends (plausible) but even if your and his claims both are true, this doesn't mean that the UN will self destruct/achieve world dominion and it doesn't mean that Valliant's book will disappear from the shelves.
What it means, Ted, that even more people will think that is what Objectivism is all about: Rand worship, which means even more people will think its a "cult." I cringe to think of it.  Yuck.  I cringe to think of the ridicule some 16 year old kid will have to endure from his parents and teachers for finding interest in her books.  "Well, ya'know what they say about those people. They're whacked! They think wanting to help poor people is evil!  Google it if you don't believe me."

I wish an "altruist" was all Erik thought, but no. He called her a "socialist" and "collectivist" - things I doubt he actually knows about her, yet claims as fact.  As if smearing the woman changes anything in the world.  What a stupid, intellectually lazy thing to do. Anyone holding some personal altruistic ideals, hardly an uncommon thing, as you well know, equals a "socialist and collectivist" now. Sickening.

The term "Scapegoat" will not leave my mind.

This has got me more pissed off than even I thought it would.  

You've turned me into a crab. Snap snap!

I have to get back to normal now.



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Post 53

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 6:37pmSanction this postReply
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TSI, you worry too much about what other people will think that other people will think.

May I suggest
or perhaps


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Post 54

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 7:31pmSanction this postReply
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I wouldn't worry too much, Teresa. I found out my sexual orientation in the same year they identified the HIV virus. I was picked on mercilessly for being smart, queer (because I read, not because I was a sissy,) not too good at sports, a Republican, a nerd, you name it. Got the shit beat out of me at school - but I never gave up and I always fought back. People came up to me afterwards and expressed their secret sympathy. Then, the summer after graduation I lost the baby fat in my face after I got a hit of testosterone working loading UPS trucks. I went back to my home town and all the cool chicks who would have ignored me kept coming up to me and making passes "Do I know you?" - and I saw how many of them had become drunken smoke-tanned skanks. I moved to college, had women rip my clothes off - men too - but not so often, dropped out of college to move in with the love of my life - in the South Bronx (ever seen Fort Apache?) Atlas Shrugged is fun, but its fiction. I wouldn't exchange my childhood of being picked on for anything. I even got a call a decade after I had graduated from a kid who wanted to apologize to me for how he had treated me in a certain matter in high school. I had long forgotten, and here the poor guy was living with this guilt for what he had done to me! What did not hurt me made me stronger. You're much too motherly and certainly no crab, more like a grizzly ma with cub in tow?

Go watch a lighthearted movie, smoke a joint, and smile. People will get picked on Rand or no. She'll just give them a little to live for, and you can't bear their burden for them, nor would it do either of you any good.

Ted

(Edited by Ted Keer
on 6/25, 8:14pm)


Post 55

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 10:09pmSanction this postReply
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I still don't quite get what's going on between you & Erik here.
You are more perceptive than that. It is obvious what is going on between Erik and Teresa. Look at the intense feelings, the passion, and the energy.


Post 56

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 10:20pmSanction this postReply
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I do have to admit that's funny, Chris.

Post 57

Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 3:19amSanction this postReply
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Shut up, Chris, you twit. 

Ted,

You never cease to give me pause, but the thought of Alec Baldwin giving an interview on Entertainment Tonight about "Atlas Shrugged, the Movie" makes me want to vomit.


Post 58

Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 10:01amSanction this postReply
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Shut up, Chris, you twit.
This was exactly what I was expecting--denial. Just look how strong your denial is.


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Post 59

Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 10:39amSanction this postReply
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Robert: "The ability of certain people to convincingly portray characters very different from themselves is precisely why we call them "actors.""

Robert, can you show me where someone argued otherwise? Namely, that actors must be similar to the characters they play? To my knowledge, no one is insisting that whomever is cast as Dagny should actually be like Dagny (mentally, not physically). That notion seems absurd on its face.

However, I think it would be nice if the person who stars as Dagny in a movie of "Atlas Shrugged" isn't the international celebrity symbol of an organization that embodies the total opposite of what AS represents. Is that asking too much?
(Here's a recent brief look at the disgusting corruption and injustice that pervades the unholy UN: http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=28880).

Jolie is beautiful and very talented, no doubt about it. But there are many beautiful, very talented actresses whom I'm sure would jump at the chance to play Dagny and would do the part justice. Are any of them as famous as Jolie? Probably not. But does a movie of Atlas Shrugged, one of the biggest-selling novels ever, need that much starpower to capture the attention of most Americans? No.

(Edited by Jon Trager on 6/26, 2:32pm)


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