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Monday, May 26, 2008 - 6:34amSanction this postReply
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Hooray!

Post 1

Monday, May 26, 2008 - 6:51amSanction this postReply
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I watched coverage live on the Science Channel and NASA TV.  Very exciting stuff!

Let's hope the good folks at NASA are able to do all the planned science before the big freeze.


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Post 2

Monday, May 26, 2008 - 7:36amSanction this postReply
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I listened to the BBC News on NPR. They gave a reasonable interpretation of what was going on but they had to end up with, "Well, we hope this is for the benefit of everyone and not just for the power-hungry, greedy few."

Jeez, that sticks in my craw. For Christ's sake it's our semi-capitalist system, flawed as it is, that created that success, not your socialist animal farm system.  

Sam


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Post 3

Monday, May 26, 2008 - 7:39amSanction this postReply
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I listened to the BBC News on NPR.
 
"Well, we hope this is for the benefit of everyone and not just for the power-hungry, greedy few."


Jeez, that sticks in my craw.



A guy walks into his doctor's office and says, "Hey doc, it hurts when I do this."   And the doc says, ...?


;o)

(Edited by Summer Serravillo on 5/26, 7:40am)


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Post 4

Monday, May 26, 2008 - 12:29pmSanction this postReply
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Beautiful photos! I want to found the first Objectivist organization on the Red Planet.
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230117main_false_color_postcard_516.jpg Mars-Phoenix ! picture by edwhudgins


Post 5

Monday, May 26, 2008 - 6:53pmSanction this postReply
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Well, we are successfully putting landers on Mars, and have satilites orbiting. At what point do we start sending men to Mars, and into deep space? Personally, I would like to see a manned space program start up again before I die.

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Post 6

Monday, May 26, 2008 - 8:06pmSanction this postReply
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For the best discussion on sending humans to Mars, see The Case for Mars by Robert Zubrin. Also check out Zubrin's Mars Society website. http://www.marssociety.org/portal/news

Post 7

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 3:26pmSanction this postReply
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Mr. St. Clair,

 

No, because of the cosmic-ray obstacle especially, discussed in Eugene Parker’s article, I don’t think man will travel personally to Mars or into deep space. It is a wee bit more likely that we will have artificial descendants able to do that sort of travel, such as the descendants in AI.

 

The wonderful thing is that there are plenty of science- and technology-steps of the mind by which humans will continue to travel unlimited roads in space exploration (but not in person) and right here.

 

Stephen


Post 8

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 7:25pmSanction this postReply
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Stephen, why are cosmic rays such an insurmountable threat? An asteroid like Apophis could be used as a convenient vehicle. It's close. Add a nuclear-powered mass accelerator to convert it to a vehicle. Dig below its surface to shield from cosmic rays. Voila!

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Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 6:59amSanction this postReply
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The technical obstacles to using Apophis and pals are unknown to me.

 

The report of the National Academies project Evaluation of Radiation Shielding for Space Exploration was due to be issued this spring. So we should learn more soon about the prospects for shielding in the present and next generation. Advances in shielding materials, anyway, is something useful on earth and its satellites.

 

One less bleak prospect for space travel mentioned by Prof. Parker is the biomedical side of the radiation problem. “Natural healing processes in the cell may be able to handle radiation doses that accumulate over an extended period, and some people’s bodies may be better at it than others’. If so, the present estimates of the cancer incidence, all based on short, intense bursts of radiation, may overestimate the danger” (Sci. Am., Mar. 2006, p. 47). It occurs to me that, in the distant future, we might have such easy and sure cures for all types of cancer, and for other radiation injuries, that the problem would be dissolved. Let’s try for those medical advances anyway, regardless of advantage for space travelers.





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Post 10

Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 7:49amSanction this postReply
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     I do believe that any early manned-bases (Luna or Mars) will have to be drilled/dug out of crater sides and be under the surface, because of the radiation concerns. An engineering prob, but surmountable...except for the excavating equipment necessary to bring there, ergo a multiple-ship (and fuel) requirement is necessitated. I don't see a Mars-base until the bugs are worked out for efficiently building a safe Lunar-base, though new metallurgical creations may allow a surface base on either.

     The real prob re Mars is that any astronauts will be expected to spend more than a few months there. Its near weightlessness will be a new health prob to deal with methinks.

     Still, we're getting closer.

LLAP
J:D


Post 11

Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 9:59amSanction this postReply
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Engineering Issues

First, to address the biology, while it may be possible to fight cancers with some soon to be discovered method, Stephen, I don't think aging due to radiation damage will be so easy. Cancers are cellular tumors. If you can target and kill those cells, the cancer is cured. Killing cells is very easy, targeting cancer and only cancer cells is not.

But sub-cellular radiation damage is much more difficult. Radiation can kill random cells all throughout the body. Replacing such cells is not so easy. Also, even if a cell isn't killed, it can be aged by random damage to its nucleus, mitochondria, or other myriad other organelles and macro-molecular-level structures. This aging is essentially the same type that anti-oxidants are supposed to combat. The damage can be quite severe and irreversible. Physically, the metabolism can become inefficient. Such inefficiencies are self-worsening through feedback loops. Even disregarding the "physical" problems, damage to the brain could have the same symptoms as Alzheimer's. No one fix can address this problem once the damage is done.

A good analogy is that killing cancer is like deleting selected software files, while fixing radiative aging is like fixing glitches, restoring degraded files, and even fixing broken hardware, with all the glitches and damage to software and hardware being random, and causing more glitches as time progresses.

That being said, we have the knowledge necessary to address almost all the issues such as shielding - as John said, dig - and gravity - use centrifuges. See this cool website http://davidszondy.com/future/space/asteroid.htm for ship models. The problems are ones of resources and engineering, not lack of theoretical knowledge.

Ted Keer

Post 12

Sunday, June 1, 2008 - 7:38amSanction this postReply
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Ted:

     Yes, orbital ships can alleviate a gravity prob (centrifuge-use), but, if the ultimate idea is a land-based 'base', Mars' gravity level still poses a large prob for those staying more than 3-6 mos.

     Maybe by then we'll have ST's 'gravity plating floors'?  :)

LLAP
J:D

(Edited by John Dailey on 6/01, 7:40am)


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Sunday, June 1, 2008 - 11:08amSanction this postReply
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Michio Kaku?

Don't be silly, John. The "physics" of Star Trek is cuckoo caca. But real-world solutions already exist. Have you ever heard of the real world?

I suppose centrifuges don't work on planet surfaces? Neither do baccarat wheels? Or maybe just not on Mars? Have you never ridden the "Twister" at Six Flags?

People could sleep for 8 hours a day at 1+ gees, and then work at Mars normal gravity. Hospitals and nurseries could be kept at 1 gee constantly, however science finds appropriate. Such answers are surprisingly easy to find - if you aren't trying to poke holes in other people's comments.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 6/01, 7:13pm)


Post 14

Tuesday, June 3, 2008 - 6:08amSanction this postReply
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Ted:
     I'm sure 'real world' solutions exist to my points...on the drafting board. Why you think I meant that centrifuges don't/can't exist on planet surfaces I have no idea. My point was regarding the establishing of the 1st Mars base. There'll be no centrifuges-for-living-within built there for many, many trips; needs specialized workers as well as mucho special equipment methinks...just as a Lunar one will.

     Re your concern about "poking holes in other people's comments", such as this post, and, your last one re my previous post: Have you ever heard of facetiousness (re my ST allusions)?

LLAP
J:D


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Post 15

Friday, June 20, 2008 - 9:10amSanction this postReply
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Ice Evidence


Post 16

Friday, June 20, 2008 - 11:07amSanction this postReply
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"Chunks of a bright material found in a trench dug by the craft have disappeared over four Martian days, suggesting they have vapourised."

Vapourised? Is this Estonian? "Vapurised" means "drollery" in Estonian.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 6/20, 11:13am)


Post 17

Wednesday, January 6, 2010 - 10:40amSanction this postReply
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Managing Space Radiation Risk in the New Era of Space Exploration
Aeronautics and Space Engineering Board (2008)

Magnetic Shielding Research



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ships of Man

On a Sea of Titan

Advanced Stirling Radioisotope Generator


Post 18

Wednesday, June 23, 2010 - 4:43amSanction this postReply
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Moon, Asteroid, Mars – 4/15/10

Challenges of human travel to an asteroid:
Science News – 5/22/10
USA Today – 6/21/10


Post 19

Wednesday, June 23, 2010 - 9:31pmSanction this postReply
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I must ask: what's stopping us from doing a manned space program?

Just because it won't be a federal agency doesn't mean there can't be one.

I find it funny that so many who are against government spending WANT NASA...even though it's basically that. Granted, the program has created amazing results, but couldn't someone in the private sector do it just as well, if not a thousand times better?

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