RoR: Forum

Post 0

Monday, January 5 - 10:18am

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In 2005, we had a similar situation here in Bradenton, Florida. One of my best promo product clients, a mortgage broker, died of cancer. He was well respected in the community, a generous supporter of numerous non-profits, and so on. When his wife took over the company after his death, she discovered things weren't quite right and placed the company in "receivorship."

Sure enough, her husband had been running a Ponzi scheme. This was the mortage broker that would give most anyone a loan. His loans were backed by his investors (friends, family and clients). He charged high interest rates to his borrowers, and his investors were paid high dividends of 8-12%. Several prominent business people and families lost millions. The ones who made out on the deal?  The lawyers. There was some money left that could have been used to pay back the investors at least some of their investment, but the attorneys fees soaked it up. I hated to see friends lose their ass, but there are several lessons to be learned:
Diversify your investments.
Live beneath your means.
Save for a rainy day.
And most of all...if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is!

Post 1

Monday, January 5 - 11:39am

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These sorts of crimes are really inexplicable to me. I can understand a lot of sorts of crime, understand not condone, but this sort of thing amazes me. The deliberate choice to victimize those that are closest to you, who trust you the most, is baffling to me. Not to mention the mental state that it would take to maintain that sort of subterfuge for years.

Post 2

Monday, January 5 - 1:12pm

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The delusion that 'somehow, it'll work'...

Post 3

Monday, January 5 - 2:55pm

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Wow.

Post 4

Monday, January 5 - 3:47pm

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I don't think thats it to be honest. I've known a man that stole a huge amount of money from relatives who, I believed, honestly thought that his fortunes would turn and he could give it all back one day. It was irrational and a pathetic state for a once proud man to fall to, but this sort of thing seems different. I don't think they ever think it will "work out", other than on some level hoping they die before being discovered. This sort of con seems a lot more sinister than the "somehow it will work out" school of thought.

Post 5

Monday, January 5 - 4:09pm

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There are a small number of people in the world that work hard to be likable, or admirable and seem normal on the outside, while on the inside they see the world as an ugly place and everyone in it is busy cheating and stealing - these people are filled with a deeply hidden anger at everyone, and their whole life is about creating such a good deception that they can be the one who wins by sticking it to the other people. They have created such a good filtering and translating system that they aren't open to any contrary information about their assumptions and they don't connect with other humans in a human sort of way. This is one of the variations of sociopaths.

Post 6

Monday, January 5 - 4:13pm

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As much as my heart goes to the victims, I have to wonder if they bear any responsibility for their own deception through lack of critical thinking.

Does anyone have any strong arguments one way or the other?

Post 7

Monday, January 5 - 5:41pm

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Luke, all I can say is that I separate the two out. I make sure the condemnation of the person that violated other's rights is taken care of no matter how culpable the victim might have been. And as a practice it is good to separate a discussion of the crime from the actions of the victim just to make sure the victim doesn't get any of the blame for the crime. But once that is said and done, yes, some victims need to do more critical thinking, some are just too too stupid.

Post 8

Monday, January 5 - 5:48pm

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I was thinking of people who sue Miss Cleo the psychic for fraud when it was plainly fraud on its face.

But, yes, I agree with Steve Wolfer about prosecuting criminals while also perhaps at least raising the subject of client due diligence.

Post 9

Monday, January 5 - 6:02pm

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The potential irony here is that even "responsible" investors who diversify can still lose 90%-100% of their investments in the financial markets in a completely legitimate manner.

Post 10

Monday, January 5 - 6:17pm

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Luke, don't worry about the clients of Cleo the fortune teller. Even if Cleo gets convicted in criminal court for fraud, her clients might have to go after her in civil court to get restitution and then their lawyers would just pluck what money people that stupid had left.

I'm happy to let people find their own level - All I ask is that crooks and thugs be snatched up, I'll deal with the sharks :-)

(Edited by Steve Wolfer on 1/05, 8:04pm)

Post 11

Tuesday, January 6 - 8:17am

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I think I have to agree with Ryan when he said:

I don't think they ever think it will "work out", other than on some level hoping they die before being discovered. This sort of con seems a lot more sinister than the "somehow it will work out" school of thought.

Apparently Madoff sent about a million dollars in jewelry to relatives and friends from his apartment while under house arrest(see here). Perhaps he was trying to make amends. : ) ... Nah. He was just trying to spread the wealth before it's taken away from him.

Thanks,
Glenn

BTW: has anyone else noted the irony of his name? He "made off" with a lot of loot!

Post 12

Tuesday, January 6 - 9:41am

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Almost, namewise, a character from Atlas Shrugged, huh......

Post 13

Thursday, August 6 - 12:37pm

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Circa 1982 -- how prophetic!

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 8/06, 12:40pm)