RoR: Forum

When Christians have the power, invariably they are as anti-human as any Islamist... despite whines to the contrary, religion per se is, bluntly, anti-human in its core doctrine, whatever the variant - love, as a response to values, has no part other than wool-fleecing...

Whatever dignity is recognized to humans qua humans, it is in spite of, not because of religion...
(Edited by robert malcom on 5/20, 8:51am)

Post 1

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 10:46am

Believe the incidents at the girl's facilities were the subject of at least one documentary, and also a movie. They were treated as little more than slaves, and with great cruelty.

jt
(Edited by Jay Abbott on 5/20, 10:47am)

Post 2

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 11:42am

I went to a Catholic school at which the Christian Brothers beat the students mercilessly! One incident, though by no means the only one, which I'll always remember involved a student who was attacked and beaten by a Christian Brother who simply didn't like him. The kid had long hair and wasn't a very conscientious student.

The kid was sitting in the lunchroom quietly eating his lunch when I saw the Christian Brother approach him and, without provocation, hit him in the head with a closed fist and then began pummeling him. The teacher knocked the kid off his seat and onto the floor and continued to beat him until he got tired. The kid, who was perhaps 15 at the time, was covering up and, thinking the beating was over, dropped his guard, at which point the Christian Brother kicked him viciously in the head, and I saw a jet of blood burst from the student's ear and travel about 10 feet. Evidently, the blow had severed an artery.

Nothing was ever done about the beating, which was not the only one administered by this particular teacher, because the faculty had the students terrorized, and because the parents thought that the Christian Brothers, as God's representatives on earth, had the right to punish their children for disobeying them, just as God had the right to punish people for disobeying him.

Other teachers would routinely hit students in the head for relatively minor offenses like talking in class. None of this was ever reported to the authorities. And this was not Ireland; it was the United States.

A man from Nigeria, who went to a Catholic school there, told me that the Irish priests would take the black students out in back of the school and whip them for misbehaving.

A woman who lives in my apartment building told me that when she was in a Catholic grade school, the nuns would beat one of the slower students every day for doing poorly on her school work. The poor girl was having trouble learning and every time she underperformed on a test or on her homework, she would get beaten with a paddle. This happened on a daily basis.

Lovely religion, and it still commands a sizable percentage of the world's population.

- Bill

Post 3

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 12:10pm

These thugs make master comprachico John Dewey look downright respectable by comparison.

Post 4

Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 2:17pm

Perhaps we should be sending criminals to Catholic schools.

Post 5

Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 3:23pm

"Nancy Peloci stands to spend the next three years in Catholic school..."

I like it!

Post 6

Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 3:39pm

I say we ship the Guantanamo Bay detainees to a Catholic school.

Post 7

Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 4:16pm

Did any of you read the article? Or just the headline?

"Victims of the abuse, who are now in their 50s to 80s, lobbied long and hard for an official investigation."

This shocking (shocking!) report dealt with abuse that occurred some forty- to seventy-plus years ago. Might as well send your favorite targets for abuse to Romanian orphanages of the Eighties or British Public Schools of the Fifties and Sixties for their daily rapes and beatings. If it was good enough for Roger Waters...

Post 8

Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 8:13pm

Of course we read the article, Ted. I just have no reason to believe that the Catholic Church is not continuing this mischief somewhere. Wherever that is, send the crooks there to get their just deserts. Worst case, construct one just for them and recruit "experienced" personnel to operate them.

Post 9

Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 8:20pm

Yes, Jesus did say, beat the little children. And we have all read the Papal Bull, Spankibus Buttibus. But how do you blame the tradition of homosexual rape in British Public Schools and the murder of orphans by Communists on the Pope? Not only did you not read the article, you didn't read my post.

The truth is that you saw a headline about something that has happened universally, and in this instance 40 years or more ago, and jumped on it like it proved something about...Catholicism. You need to listen to more Pink Floyd songs.

Post 10

Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 8:27pm

Any oppressive and unaccountable institution will do, Ted. The ones you mentioned were only tangentially relevant to this thread because of the anti-human, blindly authoritarian elements shared in common. See also Robert's and Bill's excellent posts earlier in this thread about religion and especially Bill's experiences in Catholic school. Did you bother to read them?

Just for the record, the Bible is typically treated as a "package deal" Word of God. As the Bible tells us: "He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24) and "Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs 23:13-14). So of course Jesus does not have to say these things for the Catholic Church or other Christian sects to appeal to them.

Sometimes you can be more full of stuffing than a Christmas turkey. You should learn that and learn when to shut the funk up. I mean that sincerely. You waltz into this thread, insult our due diligence while betraying your own lack of same, then get all hoity-toity when someone calls you on your rubbish. I will not sit idly while you do this. You know better.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 5/24, 5:11am)

Post 11

Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 12:02pm

Ted, seeing as how Ireland is thinking of resurrecting a constitutional dictate against "blasphemy," I can't see how the return of those practices (if they ever left) is far behind.

There will never be enough time to pass for the Catholic Church, or his teachers, to avoid suspicion. So egregious, and historical, are it's crimes.

Post 12

Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 7:08pm

Teresa, what makes you think I am arguing in favor of a state role for the Church? I simply find it obtuse, bizarre, and absurd to act as if the abuse of children is somehow an especially Catholic thing. Listen to the lyrics of British rock bands, especially those of Roger Waters and Pete Townsend. Beatings and rape were de rigueur at British Public Schools into the 1960's at least. (I assume we all know that these are not Catholic institutions.) The same in orphanages and schools everywhere world wide, and throughout history, just read Dickens, or any literature dealing with children.

Luke, it's spelled "fuck," and I am sowwy if your feewings awe huwt. (End of teasing.) Adults don't mind criticism, and if you have any factual objections to my point, let's hear them. I won't resort to calling you names. I think we can each turn the other cheek here.

The problem is not Catholicism, (Oh, and package-deal Biblical literalism is an essentially Protestant thing, and I expect Luke can agree with me on that.) it is (1) parental apathy and (2) that pedophiles and sadists are drawn to positions of authority over children everywhere. I somehow doubt that being beaten or raped by a Catholic is worse than being beaten or raped by anyone else.

Post 13

Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 7:48pm

Teresa, what makes you think I am arguing in favor of a state role for the Church?

I didn't think that for a minute, Ted. I had a crazy history teacher in public grade school who would paddle kids, but my parochial school Catholic play mates would talk about how all of the nuns would smack the kids around. Not just one crazy nun, but all of them!

They don't have the reputation for nothing, but I don't doubt the problem was pervasive in London. "Teacher, leave them kids alone." I wonder if "Teacher" was Catholic? Bet me.

Post 14

Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 8:05pm

Ted, I would have received your point much more warmly had you not opened with a snotty insult accusing us of not reading the goddamned article. Do such opening shots give you a rush -- a feeling of superiority? Regardless of the merits of your points about authority and its abuse, the fact remains that Catholicism is systematized oppression with predictable results. That is the central theme of this thread.

If I ever wanted to see a feature added to RoR, it would be one I have seen elsewhere that allows users to block certain posters from view altogether. I feel sad for Tom Baker that you choose to use and abuse his picture as your avatar. Oh, well.

Turning the other cheek is a Christian principle, not an Objectivist one. I do, however, need to cultivate the habit of simply not responding to annoying people. You seem like a good place to start. Goodbye!

Post 15

Monday, May 25, 2009 - 10:24am

Further, the British church is the Church of England, which is merely the Catholic without the Pope...

Post 16

Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 8:45am