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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 7:49amSanction this postReply
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You can visit http://helpzachary.com/ to show your support. There is information, a petition, and the email and phone numbers of the school district officials.

Let's show this "policy" decison zero tolerance.

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Post 1

Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 7:56amSanction this postReply
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Here are the emails from helpzachary.com for an easy cut and paste to send a message to the school board:

LYLESM@christina.k12.de.us,
DENNEYS@christina.k12.de.us,
WILLIAMSF@christina.k12.de.us,
evansg@christina.k12.de.us,
dresler@verizon.net,
backusgr@aol.com,
mackenziej@christina.k12.de.us,
saffers@christina.k12.de.us,
scheinberge@christina.k12.de.us,
youngjm@christina.k12.de.us

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Post 2

Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 11:19amSanction this postReply
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Why would any parent want their children exposed to such deranged adults running that school system?   They should be pulling their kids out of there until psychiatrists have examined and treated those responsible and declared the environment safe again.  Any participation in the upcoming school board meeting is a form of sanction in my view; an acknowledgement that those present are mentally "fit" enough to participate.   The national coverage of this incident will probably work to the kid's benefit though, and result in a less harsh outcome (like a formal letter of reprimend or "censure", or something similarly ridiculous).  

Post 3

Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 1:40pmSanction this postReply
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I sent 'em all an email. How stupid.

jt

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Post 4

Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 3:06pmSanction this postReply
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My heart is just breaking for that little guy. 

I used to tell my own kids that I'd rather see them break an arm or leg instead of having their hearts broken in any way.

I would refuse to send my child to their stupid concentration camp/re-education detention program. Screw that!   That little boy did absolutely nothing wrong.

I hope his parents yank him out of there.


Post 5

Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 5:34pmSanction this postReply
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Yes, my father and I were discussing this at dinner. He asked where are the scouts, why aren't they protesting for this kid? I simply said if it were my son and the charge were not dropped I'd keep him home and let the school send the cops to pick him up if they want. The school board meeting is happening at this moment.

I remember what I was like in first grade. This kid has probably been very eager about his education up to now. Like I said, this thing turns my stomach. I emailed one sentence: "This "punishment" is morally repugnant."

The email for the one person with aol was returned due to a full box.

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Post 6

Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 6:14pmSanction this postReply
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I sent more than one sentence, but it was short, and meant for a bright six year old.

I wish I were a fly on the wall at that meeting. I hope someone brings up the fact that the rule is only in place to impose the state's power on powerless children, because it obviously has nothing to do with protecting them.


Post 7

Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 6:51pmSanction this postReply
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News reports say the board voted unanimously to amend the rule for kindergarteners and first graders. That's obviously an ad hoc attempt to solve the problem. It sounds like things will go his way.

I have been trying to find an image of a knork to post, but can only find sporks. I remember throwing away my knork and simply bringing tablewear when I went camping, including a nice sharp serrated steak knife.

Post 8

Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 10:36pmSanction this postReply
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The schoolboard has reduced the sentence to a 3 to 5 day suspension. This is still absurd. This "incident," as reported, merited a call from the principal's office to the child's parents, nothing more. There is no indictation that the child snuck the "weapon" into school, or used it inappropriately, or was insubordinate. The reduction in sentence is like reducing the punishment for failing to recycle from the death penalty to fifty lashes. The schoolboard is trying to save face by lessening the punishment for a non-offense.

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Post 9

Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 3:13amSanction this postReply
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I happened to catch a short interview with Zachary this morning. Asked what he learned from this experience, Zachary replied (with a disappointed tilt of the head, and down cast eyes) "Well, I learned that I should ask permission before I bring something new to school."

Translation:  "I learned that I need to ask permission before I use my own brain. I learned that the state has the power to think for me and to make me think the way it wants me to think. I learned that my mind and moral aspirations can be questioned by an authority I never subscribed to. I learned that good and bad are manifested in things, not in people. I learned what 'intrinsicism' means. That's what I learned."

Any kind of punishment imposed by the district on this child is criminal. I encourage all voters of Zachary's school district to reject any future millage proposals, and to cram every school board meeting with jeering, chanting property tax payers ready to shout down every word uttered by the totalitarians presiding over it.

Idiots.


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Post 10

Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 6:41amSanction this postReply
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I'm guessing the 3-5 days might be 'time already served', and they simply adjusted it to reflect what time was already lost. In any case, this was an exercise in stupidity. As Ted suggested, a simple phone call to the parent advising them that the 'knork' wasn't permissible would have been more than enough, leaving the parent to explain it to the child, rather than punishing the child.

jt

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Post 11

Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 7:19pmSanction this postReply
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Drinking With Bob did a bit on this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ztjl26FVNU.

He also did a good bit on Obama and the Nobel Peace Prize, but I won't link to it as to reduce threadknapping.

Tyson


Post 12

Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 8:26pmSanction this postReply
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WTF? Tyson, you already "threadnapped" the discussion by mentioning it. Linking to the thread won't do further damage! It's like you told somebody he was in grave immanent danger, but then refused to be specific because you don't want to scare him!

Nobody cares about threadnapping, please provide the link.

Post 13

Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 8:11pmSanction this postReply
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Returning to the thread...

Montessori schools - those that are the genuine article, anyway - use glass glasses and breakable plates and real knives in the classroom.  The kids are taught the proper way to peel, slice, etc., in the preparation of food, as they prepare their own meals.  In such an environment, a child learns systematically how to deal with sharp edges and common physical danger.

This kid was not in a Montessori School.

I went to public schools.  One of the kids in my Ist grade class - Jesse - had a glass eye, due to an accident with a knife that he and another kid were playing with.

While in the 5th or 6th grade, I used to hang out with my best friends - twin brothers whose mother taught at the school - in their mother's car as they were waiting for her to leave.  Someone had given their mother a switchblade, in case of attack, which she kept in the glove compartment.  I reached for the knife just as one of my friends hit the button.  That ended any possible career for me in playing piano or guitar or anything requiring full use of the left hand.

My best friend in high school kept a single-shot shotgun in his loft bedroom.  Unloaded.  But, he had brothers who were six or seven years old.  I.e., old enough to figure out how to break open the shotgun and put in a shell, but not mature enough to think about the possible consequences. 

When I visited him, while we would talk, I used to repeatedly break open the gun, snap it closed and then sight it in while gently easing the hammer down with my thumb, in order not to damage the firing pin.

One day, after we had gone out to play tennis, I think, when we returned, I started to break the gun open once more, at which point, irritated for whatever reason, my friend exclaimed something like, "Enough!  DON'T break the gun open.  You KNOW it's unloaded.  You checked it fifty times a couple hours ago."

I replied that I ALWAYS checked a gun before I did anything with it.  He replied that that was nonsense.

"Here, point the gun at my head.  Cock the hammer.  Pull the damn trigger!  I dare you!"

So, I did.  But, I let the hammer down easy - out of habit, and, then, without thinking, out of habit, I broke the gun open and a 12 guage shell popped out.  His brothers thought it would be a fun joke.  My friend still remembers that night.

When I worked as a Montessori director, we had kids of all kinds, from all kinds of families.  One of them was a scrawny little 2~3 year old whose father was a marine drill sergeant.  This kid was usually more or less ok, until an adult - any adult - paid attention, at which point he became a little demon, physically attacking other kids, seriously, as it attempting to poke their eyes out with a pencil, without any display of anger or any warning.

We debated on what to do.  We tried talking with the parents.  Things got worse, such that one of us had to constantly watch or physically restrain this kid.  Then there was some spill and we had to take his wet shirt off, and we discovered the raw welts all over his back from his father's beatings.  It turned out that the beatings were his dad's solution to everything, and when we told him about the problem, naturally he used his solution.

While suspending a kid for having a scout knife or an aspirin is stupid, it is also the case that schools do have to go overboard in dealing with security situations.  Even private schools have to deal with liability.  ONE serious accident can bankrupt them.  The proper procedure is to take the knife or other dangerous item away, without unwarranted hostility and contact the parent to discuss the issue.  In the case of drugs, the problem is that other kids can steal them and may not realize that the pill is actually something quite dangerous as they swallow it to show how hip they are.

There was a program a few years back analyzing the effectiveness of gun awareness training programs for kids.  Many parents swore by these programs, in which young children would learn all about what guns could do and why they shouldn't touch them under any circumstances.  So, the show did a few tests with these kids, who could recite chapter and verse of gun awareness.  In EVERY case, when a real, apparently loaded handgun was placed where the kid could find it, he not only picked it up, but within a minute or so pointed it at a classmate and pulled the trigger.  The parents were aghast, of course.

Yet, I'm sure, there are still thousands of parents who believe that it is possible to teach young children not to touch guns.

I had a friend with cats - and kittens.  She also had high shelves laden with fragile glassware.  Any time the kittens would even look at the shelves, she would "HSSSSST!" at them and clap her hands and they would stop.

One morning, I visited her before she was ready to go out, and sat in the living room while she prepared in the bathroom.  The kittens had not generalized her behavior to other humans, obviously, but they were smart enough to realize that if she wasn't in the room, then there was no "HSSSST!" coming.  So, guess where they spent 100% of their time while I sat on the couch and watched.

Young children generally do not have anything close to a mature, integrated consciousness.  The closest thing to it is hero worship of some adult, typically a father or mother.  Not all kids have anyone to look up to and model themselves after, and any school or other venue that deals with them has to realize that and deal with it in order to avoid horrendous consequences.


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Post 14

Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 8:57pmSanction this postReply
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First, you never reach to take a knife that isn't handed it to you butt end first. You were at fault, and I hope you learned your lesson.

Second, you never point a gun at someone, even if he is taunting you, unless you mean to kill him. You were at fault, and I hope you learned your lesson.

Finally, the trick to teaching animals to avoid objects is to make the deterrent come from the object itself, not the owner. Electrification and strategically placed thumbtacks work very well.

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Post 15

Friday, October 16, 2009 - 6:13amSanction this postReply
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I think Phil's point, that kids are not mature thinkers, is a valid argument for making rules. However, adults, who know kids aren't mature thinkers, but are themselves expected to be mature thinkers, should be able to judge a child's actions in context. Adults also should be expected to judge the rules in context.

A six year old with a cub scout kit containing a 'knork' is not a challenge to authority, nor a reasonable threat.

Whenever any group or government says they will exert "zero tolerance" they should have a disclaimer stating "we are absolutely committed to not thinking or employing any kind of logic whatsoever before imposing an immediate and unmeasured punishment for this rule".

jt
(Edited by Jay Abbott on 10/16, 6:14am)


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Post 16

Friday, October 16, 2009 - 2:13pmSanction this postReply
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Video presentation on five of the 50 dangerous things kids need to learn.

Gever Tulley runs a "discovery camp" where 7-year olds use power tools.  "They're gonna come home bruised... But [speaking of pocket knives] they're young and they heal quickly."

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/gever_tulley_on_5_dangerous_things_for_kids.html

 His website
http://www.gevertulley.com/

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 10/16, 2:24pm)


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Post 17

Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 6:17pmSanction this postReply
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Jay wrote: "A six year old with a cub scout kit containing a 'knork' is not a challenge to authority, nor a reasonable threat."

By himself, the six-year-old is probably not a problem.  However, there are all kinds of little power contests and one-up-man-ship games and bullies and cliques at every grade in school.  For me, as a displaced Yankee in the deep South for all but the first half-year of my education, "recess" meant "fight time," as I would be challenged every single day by some little defender of the honor of the South.

So, you have your sweet new pocket knife and you naturally show it off.  Comes recess and one of your non-friends wants to show everyone that he is your superior.  So, he throws his knife so that it sticks in the soil a few inches from his feet.  Now it's your turn to show that you can do better.  Then it gets serious, as he bets his knife against yours and if you don't want to play, then there are words to describe your character that will be used.

There are a million such scenarios and they frequently end up with someone hurt, sometimes seriously.  Those kids who are lucky enough to have really mature role models and strive to live up to their standards may be able to maintain their resolve and deal with such situations, but the problems of lack of integration, lack of a firm self-concept, etc., require almost a super-human effort for most kids in such situations.

Although 6-yr-old kids do not generally have a firm conceptual grasp on values and their natural hierarchy, they are quite as capable as adults, I think, in terms of having strong emotions, based on implicit valuations.  I recall having very strong feelings toward my friends and my enemies at that age, and I know that I was very much aware of girls and frequently head over heels in love. 

So, add to the mix that even young girls have picked up on how easy it is to manipulate guys who have a crush on them.  Maybe the first few times you get some stupid challenge, you ignore it and the cries of wimp or coward or worse, but then some girl who you can't keep your eyes off of makes some snide remark, and you totally lose your temper.  Even your role model may have occasionally slipped from rationality of consistency on occasion, so that's not a perfect moral shield.

Add to that that, unlike kids of pre-mass-media times, kids today see dozens of brutal murders per day on regular broadcast TV or in their video games.  That the killings are mostly fictional probably does not prevent such horrors from being taken all too casually. 

(Oh, Ted, the switchblade was closed when I reached for it, and there was no easy way to determine which way the blade would come out if someone stupidly or accidentally pushed the button that released the spring.)


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Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 6:30pmSanction this postReply
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"Oh, Ted, the switchblade was closed when I reached for it, and there was no easy way to determine which way the blade would come out if someone stupidly or accidentally pushed the button that released the spring."

I was half teasing you, Phil, seven is too young for a kid to have access to a switchblade, so obviously your parent or guardian pro tempore was at fault. But the "it wasn't clear which end was dangerous" excuse is laughable - it's like saying you weren't sure which of the green liquids on the shelf was poisonous when you tasted one.

Post 19

Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 7:29pmSanction this postReply
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Actually, I was in the Fifth or Sixth grade, I think, at the time of the switchblade incident.  I'm not sure that there would have been a readilly determinable way to access how to grab the thing, but the danger lay in someone pushing the button.  Yeah, it was stupid, but kids do stupid things.  The number of times my own stupidity has nearly gotten me killed makes me wonder sometimes if the parallel universe theory isn't correct.  Maybe this is the ONE where I managed to survive all manner of lethal incidents.

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