About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unread


Post 0

Wednesday, March 10, 2010 - 12:49pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Does it have a good ending?

Some time ago, I read about half of it.


Post 1

Wednesday, March 10, 2010 - 1:07pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
No, it's a boring, depressing, pretentious and almost plotless downer with a horrible ending.

Post 2

Wednesday, March 10, 2010 - 2:11pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Thanks, Ted.

I remember liking the premise, and enjoying it for a while.  But it didn't keep my attention.


Post 3

Wednesday, March 10, 2010 - 5:35pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I tracked it down in the Alexander Library at Rutgers in the late 80's, before Amazon. I had just read The Brothers Karamazov and Moby Dick which were both much more thrilling. All I remember from We was the glass houses, it being boring, and having a bad ending. It can't have been very long (Amazon says 256p) or I would not have finished it. If you want to read a much better book with a bad ending then read 1984. But if you are the type who cuts herself, do try this instead.

from an Amazon review:

If you think Huxley and Orwell are bleak, Zamyatin's novel beats them hands down. The introduction to this version of "We" tries to stress that the book does have its humorous moments, but I found very little amusement in this story. People with numbers instead of names, uniforms as the only allowed apparel, the worship of technology not as a means of getting things done but as an example of desirable conformity, and death penalties for unplanned pregnancies all contributed to my sense of utter dread about the author's vision. This is a sad, dark tale about a possible future with little optimism. Zamyatin does include the obligatory revolutionary group, called MEPHI, personified in the form of a woman named I-330, who drinks alcohol, smokes cigarettes, and wears forbidden clothing on occasion. After a few encounters with I-330, D-503 becomes aware that he is suffering a "sickness," the symptoms of which are dreams and the discovery that he suddenly has a "soul." Regrettably, any hope offered by MEPHI and I-330 dissolves when the state takes the repressive measure of developing an operation that uses X-rays to melt imagination out of people's heads. By the time the conclusion of the story rolls around, hope is as distant as a ship on the horizon.

"We" is an unusual read. Things really start to take off when D-503 encounters the corrupt I-330. His awakening is often confusing to the reader. The ramblings of this mathematician make one wonder if he is really experiencing events or hallucinating them. I decided on the former because if his mind was not used to experiencing life outside of OneState it would follow that new sensations might produce a sense of bewilderment. It was enjoyable to see how the world came alive when D-503 experiences a bevy of colors and emotions; he starts to shout out his feelings, he cries, and he even daydreams on the job. While this sensory overload makes for difficult reading at times, it also makes for an engaging story.

Without this Russian pioneer's groundbreaking work, the dystopian genre may never have gotten off the ground. Zamyatin's "We" is not an easy book to read and understand, but it is an essential work that I should have read years ago instead of allowing it to languish on my bookshelf. Moreover, the author makes his narrator a cheerful advocate of OneState's authoritarian rule, a viewpoint that other dystopian novels fail to do and which makes "We" even more of a unique read. For fans of utopian and anti-utopian literature, Yevgeny Zamyatin's book is time well spent.

Post 4

Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 7:21amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Of course I disagree with you on this, Ted.  I didn't find the book boring or depressing at all.  True, it's not as tightly plotted as some other dystopias, but that doesn't mean it lacks a plot or story arc.  It's exciting, tense, thought-provoking, and the ending, while not uplifting along the lines of Anthem, certainly leaves more room for hope than the ending of 1984.

The difference might very well be in translations - I've noticed that, particularly among Russian authors, two different translations can lead to two very different stories, and two very different impressions in the reader's mind.  While a translator might not change the fundamentals of the story, how she chooses to parse the text in English has a significant effect on the pacing, mood, and other more intangible elements of the work.  I read two different editions of Dostoevsky's Notes from the Underground, for instance, and one was appropriately horrifying, while the other was almost dry.  My impression of the book would certainly have been different - and I probably wouldn't have bothered to read it again, different translation or no - if I had read the more dry, boring version first.


Post 5

Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 7:35amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
My husband translated several Jack Vance's book into Russian. He talked a lot about problems associated with translating of poetry or prose on Foreign Language Forum. Here is an excerpt:

I find in Vance's names, personal and geographical, many influences of various languages -- Celtic, Slavic, Germanic, Romanesque, even Hungarian and Finnish. I suppose, like any inventive author, he uses multilingual dictionaries to find colorful "associative" roots, and then modifies these morphemes according to his taste and context. "Tschai" ("chay") is "tea" in Russian, for example. Hardly a coincidence.

Good translation can be as good as the original. However, it is never the same book -- there is never an exact equivalence between languages. Some nuances and effects are inevitably lost; something different is added or emphasized to compensate for the loss. Sometimes (rarely) translations make even better impression than the originals. I strongly suspect that English and French translations of Dostoyevsky are better written than their Russian counterparts: Dostoyevsky is not a great wordsmith in Russian, he can be extremely awkward, sloppy, heavy, even stupid. Famous examples from Dostoyevsky: "He crossed himself with his right hand", it says in Dostoyevsky's Russian; "He crossed himself", it says in English translation. The latter is correct, of course. "He left, leaving the dead body where he left it", says Dostoyevsky (as if it isn't clear that the "body" is dead, and as if "he" would habitually carry the bodies of his victims with him); "He left without giving the still body another look", writes the English translator -- and this is much better!

I have never seen a good English rhymed translation of good Russian poetry, for example of Pushkin (even Nabokov's translation of "Onegin" is nothing compared to the original). Perhaps, poetry cannot be translated well at all. Dante in Italian impressed me ten times more than Dante in Russian (while Lozinsky's Russian translation of Dante's "La Divina Commedia" is considered to be exemplary by the critics). Alexander Pushkin translated (probably, just to exercise his pen) several triplets from Dante into Russian, and he _was_ able to convey the terrible succulent tension and macabre beauty of these few lines. But Pushkin himself (who was fluent in French, Italian, and English) asserted that rhymed translation of the true poetry is impossible.

Even prosaic good translations are rare. For example, I've seen three different English translations of Bulgakov's famous "Master and Margarita". Two were terrible, particularly the latest American one; one (published in the UK in the 60s) is excellent. The translator had a Polish-sounding name, and I have never seen his name anywhere else, but his translation of Bulgakov is a true masterpiece. It is sufficiently true to the original but isn't rigid or pedantic, that is, translator paid more attention to creating the correct identical _effect_ than to following the original verbatim. Choice of the words (size of the lexicon), general level of freedom of expression and, most importantly, innate talent are crucial in a translator. Unfortunately, to be able to judge a translation, one has to be familiar with the original. This is why bad translations proliferate and predominate.


Post 6

Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 8:20amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Luke,

Which translation would you recommend?

Post 7

Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 8:43amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Well, yes, the translation does matter. For example, I had once bought and begun to read a copy of Hugo's Ninety Three which had Rand's introduction. The book was brown with oxidation and literally crumbled in my hands half way thru. I went to the library to get a replacement, but it was a different and more archaicizing version. It was unreadable. I had to wait 15 years for the advent of abebooks.com to find another reasonably priced version of the NBI version which was excellent.

But in which translator's version of Zamyatin's We are the heroes not lobotomized and executed?

Post to this thread


User ID Password or create a free account.