RoR: Forum

Well written, Ed! That really boils it down to the bone, and the 'civil war' analogy is compelling!

Post 1

Thursday, August 4, 2011 - 9:07am

Thanks! And, of course, those who urge "compromise" between the two sides must appreciate that this process is what has led, bit by bit, to producers having their freedom and wealth taken from them. With only the House in the hands of Republicans, and many of them still squishy, perhaps we could not have expected a better debt deal. But we need to keep focused on the true nature of this conflict if freedom is to triumph in the future.

Post 2

Thursday, August 4, 2011 - 12:26pm

I wouldn't have voted for this deal. But I recognize that they were NOT going to get a good deal and that the real betrayal probably happened when the GOP powers behind the scenes didn't support the Cap-Cut-and-Balance bill and instead allowed it to be ignored and for the focus to shift to the Gang of Six nonsense as a distraction and then to put up another lame deal.

I also recognize that the only real power the House had was to force us into a situation where some obligations wouldn't be paid - about 40% of them. And that is where the practical problems would arise - that Tea Party portion of the House doesn't have enough power to be able to use that default situation effectively. Instead that crisis would have been used by Dems and the Admin to make the fiscally conservative position look like the product of idiots. Fiscal conservatives don't yet have the power to use a crisis like that to effect good changes (like eliminating the dept. of educ., dept of commerce, etc.)

The public needs more education - primarily on the fundamental issues, like your article does. Then they need to see the particulars outlined - like understanding that somewhere along the way Congress redefined "baseline" as a think that goes up by about 7% - and that makes nearly every discussion of "cuts" a joke.

This political period has done more to provide an education of the voting public than any I can think off. If the Tea Party types stay motivated and don't get overwhelmed with a feeling of hopelessness or paralyzing disgust, then the senate will become significantly more fiscally conservative, and Obama will be replaced.

Post 3

Thursday, August 4, 2011 - 7:31pm

Steve,

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This political period has done more to provide an education of the voting public than any I can think of.
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And therein lies our salvation.

Just today, I had the honor of witnessing a middle-aged woman trying to propagandize to an older, Mexican couple who spoke some English, but not fluently. The woman was explaining to the couple how an online news article (or left-wing blog) somehow showed that the republicans were hypocritical. Something about the republicans wanting to spend money on something and to claim the credit for it, when it was the democrats who stepped in and spent the money and got the credit (stealing the credit from the republicans).

After a minute or so, the older couple had just heard the woman mention the name "Obama" and they promptly replied:

"Obama? We don't like Obama!"

At that point, I just about choked on my food! The woman, realizing that she was barking up the wrong tree, nervously changed the subject to something trivial -- as she got herself together and quickly made for the door.

It was "classic". A post-modern liberal falling off of her own self-styled soapbox and face-planting on the floor!

:-)

There is much hope for this country.

Ed
(Edited by Ed Thompson on 8/04, 7:32pm)

Post 4

Thursday, August 4, 2011 - 8:14pm

Ed,

That's great!

But when you ended on an optimistic note it caused the contrarian in me to focus on the pessimistic view.

Long term, like in the next century, I am optimistic, but it might not get better until we have hit rock bottom - like a long depression far, far worse than the last one and then a slow but steady ascendancy of sound thinking. If that is going to be our path it will result in what might end up as a minarchy built out of and upon on explicit principles and end up being our permanent state - the war pretty much won.

Short term, like in the next decade, I'm worried. I can see that there is a newly active portion of the population who are agitating for fiscally conservative positions and they realize they have to stay active, I can see that the far left is becoming visibly absurd in their extreme positions that they won't admit to but keep trying to bring in under feeble excuses. And I can see the rapid acceleration of the political and economic education we are all getting (I include myself since I've learned so much more of our political history than I'd known of before.) These are all good.

But is it going to be enough? Such a large portion of the population is still ignorant. Such a large portion of the population is holding tight to government paychecks or are brainwashed by Keynesian economics, the politics of 'social justice', the redistribution of wealth, or to fuzzy notions like 'big problems require big government'.

What is different now as opposed to previous battles between fairly extreme differences in politics (Reagan v. Carter, or Goldwater v. LBJ) is the degree of instability, baked-in inflationary risk, debt-to-GDP ratio, and the magnitude of regulation in the economy - suggesting that we are near a forced economic tipping point. If we crash it may be an FDR moment - crisis as the path to transformation into full out socialism. And if we drag on for another decade, somehow struggling along year to year averting disaster by the skin of our teeth, it doesn't necessarily get better. Much of the Tea Party is over 55 and most of the 20- 30 generation are ideologically to the left. That decade retires a significant portion of those who vote for fiscal conservative policies and brings into power a generation more likely to vote big government.

Our nation's new, energetic education of core issues caused by this political season's stage show will have to be very effective to overcome the negatives mentioned above. I remain hopeful, but continue to search for the right sailboat.

Post 5

Friday, August 5, 2011 - 4:25pm

Steve,

Good counterpoints. You pessimistically wrote:

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If we crash it may be an FDR moment - crisis as the path to transformation into full out socialism.
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My counterpoint to that is that there is at least a full third of U.S. citizens alive today -- over 100 million people -- who simply will not ... ever ... tolerate "full out socialism".

Yes, some of them suffer from embarrassing philosophical compartmentalization (e.g., a tea party enthusiast shouting "Get government out of my Medicare!" or "Keep government hands off of my Social Security!"). But that's just the learning curve. There may be 200 million people in this country who think socialism is a bad deal. Of those, maybe 100 million of them can be "bought off" or encouraged to defect to the other side and against capitalism.

That leaves at least one-third of the country -- over 100 million people -- who will not ever stop fighting collectivism. They reminded us that they are out there in the last (midterm) election. American exceptionalism is not just something captured in centuries-old documents, it is something carried in the spirit of many (at least one-third of) Americans.

Ed
(Edited by Ed Thompson on 8/05, 4:32pm)

Post 6

Friday, August 5, 2011 - 6:24pm