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Thursday, January 5, 2012 - 6:32pmSanction this postReply
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Bill,

My view is: "Enough with giving politicians the benefit of the doubt!" I have the book: Throw them All Out and it shows that most commonly, these "for-the-little-guy" democrats are some of the most consciously-evil people around (willing to negatively affect millions of lives for the smallest of short-term, narrow-focus "personal gain"). My view is that Obama -- like Ellsworth Toohey -- knows exactly what he is doing. He simply doesn't care that it increases the overall suffering in the world. He and his family and friends are -- and will be -- insulated from the hardships he is causing the rest of us. Hardships which he and his friends profit from.

A con-man will often pretend that he has strong principles (principles that you can really count on). He will work to get you to believe that he is a True Believer. He is like fool's gold -- an 'ideologue-by-mere-opportunistic-choice.'

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 1/05, 6:35pm)


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Friday, January 6, 2012 - 1:22amSanction this postReply
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Oh and loookie look at the new years eve present he dropped on us...

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Post 2

Saturday, January 7, 2012 - 11:55pmSanction this postReply
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As for mortgage discrimination, the claim has been that banks engage in predatory lending, which means that they try to get people to take out mortgages who can’t afford them. But the Obama administration is now accusing them of doing just the opposite — of turning down credit worthy applicants because of their race or ethnicity. Clearly, both accusations can’t be true.

Besides, if racism rather than relative credit risk were the reason banks are turning down black applicants in disproportionate numbers, then to get approval for a loan, blacks would have to be more credit worthy than whites, not less credit worthy. But that would mean that the default rate for blacks would tend to be lower than for whites, because only blacks with better credit than whites would be approved for loans. In fact, however, a study by the Federal Reserve Board found that blacks defaulted at about the same rate as whites. Evidently, whites and blacks who received loans posed an equal credit risk to the lenders, meaning that there was no invidious discrimination between them.

The same Federal Reserve Board study, which examined over 200,000 mortgage loans made in the late 1980's, found that minority owned banks rejected loan applications from blacks three times more often than from Asians, and 50 percent more often than from whites, because Asians on average had better credit than whites; and whites, better credit than blacks. In Houston, Texas, where racism is just as likely as any place else, banks on the average approved black applicants 50 to 60 percent of the time, whereas the city's one black-owned bank, Unity National, approved them only 17 percent of the time. Yet, civil rights advocates would never think to accuse black bankers of racism against blacks, let alone accuse them of being more racist than white bankers.

Finally, if racism were common among lenders, one would expect it to be equally common among auto dealers or shoe salesmen. Yet there is no evidence that these latter businesses reject black customers unfairly, so why, in the absence of a poorer credit rating for blacks, would banks be expected to do so? There is no reason to believe that banks are any more racist than any other kind of business.

As the participants in this forum already know, the blame for this housing debacle lies with the Community Reinvestment Act, which required banks to increase their approval rate for poorer qualified minority applicants, literally forcing banks to make loans to people with poor credit, people whom they otherwise would have turned down. It also lies with the easy money policy of the Federal Reserve, which held interest rates so low for so long that people were encouraged to take out home loans in ever increasing numbers. The ensuing demand for housing drove up its prices, making it increasingly profitable to buy at lower prices and then turn around and sell a month or two later at higher prices, a process known as “flipping."

I could see the housing bubble developing as early as 2004. I told one of the realtors in my city that I thought house prices would eventually collapse, but she didn’t believe me. Very few people thought that we were headed for a disaster. A colleague of mine, who was far more prescient than most, had properties which he sold early in the decade -- perhaps a little too early -- to avoid taking a loss when their value eventually depreciated. He had graphed the housing bubble trend line, which clearly showed the overvaluation. The information was there for anyone to see.

While it may be true that in many cases lenders acted as irresponsibly as borrowers, the incentive for their doing so was created by the push to lower lending standards combined with artificially low interest rates. It is the government's irresponsible policies that encouraged the very behavior for which the government is now blaming them. It is the bad incentives that created the bad behavior.

(Edited by William Dwyer on 1/08, 8:54am)


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Sunday, January 8, 2012 - 9:48amSanction this postReply
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Bill,
As for mortgage discrimination, the claim has been that banks engage in predatory lending, which means that they try to get people to take out mortgages who can’t afford them. But the Obama administration is now accusing them of doing just the opposite — of turning down credit worthy applicants because of their race or ethnicity. Clearly, both accusations can’t be true.
That speaks to my point. It is not fruitful to think that the Obama administration is attempting to administer government for the expected purpose. Folks initially think that. They think that the administration is trying to do its job, but is just marred in an ineffective ideology. The fact is that the administration is not trying to do its job, but that it is acting like an opportunist predator -- while relying on projecting a false impression that it is "being altruistic" or "protecting the Little Guy against the evil Robber Barrons" or whatever. That was never the case. And, because it has always been a lie, it not only contradicts reality but is, itself, internally invalid or inconsistent (incoherent).

That's the trouble with lies, they don't add up. A constitutional amendment is needed in order to disincentivize what might be called "administrative looting" (i.e., legal plunder). 

Ed


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Sunday, January 8, 2012 - 9:56amSanction this postReply
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Ed: "A constitutional amendment is needed in order to disincentivize what might be called "administrative looting" (i.e., legal plunder). "

Yeah, because all those other constitutional amendments are being respected so well, right now...



Post 5

Sunday, January 8, 2012 - 1:15pmSanction this postReply
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Joe,

You are right that the Bill of Rights (and possibly later amendments) isn't being respected by government right now. There will always be folks trying to get around limitations. What is needed is similar to the budget bill that went through, stating that if Congress doesn't decide which programs to cut, then an across-the-board cut goes into effect automatically. Think of similar, draconian-style rules for each member of congress. If a particular member doesn't clean up his act, then impeachment is automatic, or something like that. I realize how much this sounds like wishful thinking, but as I just said, we do have a similar act in place regarding budget cuts.

Here is the bottom line: For every exception that you can think of, I can think of a stop-gap. In order to make progress, you don't need a stop-gap for every exception, just for more than 50% of them. So, you might say that if an anti-looter amendment was made to the Constitution, then politicians would create ways around it. Well, then we create stop-gaps. This is no different, in theory, from criminal law. A murderer claims he was insane at the time he committed the murder. We find better ways to discover the proof of that -- in order to prevent folks from being able to use that excuse in the future, etc.

For every excuse the criminals come up with -- in order to escape being limited in their actions by the force of law -- we develop solutions. It's better, in my mind, than to grin-and-bear the corrupt congress we have now. Part of the solution is to get better people in government, but I think that that part is minor. Jefferson said don't talk about whether you can trust a president or not, instead, talk about how you are going to chain him down with a constitution. It's all too clear now that we need a new and heavier set of chains.

Ed


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Sunday, January 8, 2012 - 4:39pmSanction this postReply
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More laws? Or tar-and-feathers?




(Edited by Joe Maurone on 1/08, 4:47pm)


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Post 7

Sunday, January 8, 2012 - 5:35pmSanction this postReply
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Joe,

Tar-and-feathers? Hmph! If I had my way, it'd be honey and grizzly bears.

:-)

Ed


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Post 8

Monday, January 9, 2012 - 8:50amSanction this postReply
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1] If there is a correlation between race and poverty...

...and...

2] If there is a correlation between poverty and available credit ...

...and...

3] If adherence to conservative banking and lending principles demand that bankers consider available credit in making sound loans, such that NOTES are actual ASSETS...

... then by necessity,

=> there is an unavoidable correlation between refused credit and race, and left wing activists have purely constructed an impossible set of hurdles for bankers and lenders to navigate; if they follow sound banking and lending principles, they are 'racists,' and if they don't, they are irresponsible 'predators,' preying on the minorities who they gave unaffordable credit to.

This totally constructed impossibility is not a concern to left wing activists, it is entirely consistent with their world view.

Instead of (with great difficulty) addressing the -underlying reasons- for a correlation between race and poverty, they throw up their arms and indict bankers and lenders and their investors as de facto criminals no matter what they do; their evidence is that 'they are bankers and lenders', and no other evidence is necessary in their worldview, which is first and foremost based on redistributive social justice aimed only at outcomes, period.

FHA/HUD anti-discrimination rules proved to be difficult/impossible to enforce on an actual evidential/incident basis, and so, the government enforcers threw up their hands and indicted broadly based on their class warfare sensibilities, nothing else.



Post 9

Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 10:12pmSanction this postReply
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I pulled those FB comments on this exact same subject:

" Except that isn't what the case was about at all.

The settlement was based on an analysis of the 2.5 million mortgages Countrywide issued from 2004-2008. Using statistical analysis it compared people with the same credit-worthiness. It found 200k cases where minorities were sold mortgages with higher rates than whites with the same past performance.

It had nothing to do with past performance of an individual.

You know but don't let facts get in the way of what Fox News says."

and

"BoA agreed with charge that the discrimination happened in 41 states and the District of Columbia against both African Americans and Hispanics.

There is no evidence Countrywide discriminated in the other 9 states. There's also no evidence in the settlement that Countrywide discriminated against Jews, Muslims, women, homosexuals, Asians or other groups protected from discrimination. The total discrimination amounted to only 2 races in 41 states and DC. That's all. "

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