About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadBack one pagePage 0Page 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Forward one pageLast Page


Post 40

Monday, February 19, 2007 - 9:01amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Oh I forgot do you consider Barack Obama a hybird that has an unfair advantage?

Remember I asked that we have some fun with this topic.


Post 41

Monday, February 19, 2007 - 11:46amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
     I think 'the Pod People' have now actually arrived, and, beat us humans to the punch re genetic hybrids...flaws and all.

LLAP
J:D


Post 42

Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 8:06amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Mice With Human Brains

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0125_050125_chimeras_2.html 
 
 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1392149

Animal-human hybrid cloning deferred

Controversial proposals to make embryos by merging human and animal material remain on hold following a decision on Thursday by the UK regulator of embryo research.

Under intense pressure from scientists to allow three UK teams to make the embryos, the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority decided instead to hold a public consultation on the issue.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10939-animalhuman-hybrid-cloning-deferred.html 
 
 

Scientists racing to catch athletes who manipulate genes to boost performance (17 Dec, 2006)

 

 

LONDON (AP) - Scientists are racing to develop a test to catch athletes who try to boost their performance by manipulating their own genes

Though there is no proof that gene doping is already occurring, researchers say they would like to be ready ahead of the 2008 Beijing Olympics. Gene doping is an illegal spin-off of gene therapy, which typically alters a person’s DNA to fight diseases like muscular dystrophy and cystic fibrosis.

 

http://www.gmathletes.net/ 

 

 


 

I posted this information because you asked me what I was talking about.
 
 
 


God gene

The God gene hypothesis states that some human beings bear a gene which gives them a prediposition to episodes interpreted by some as religious revelation. The idea has been postulate and promoted by geneticist Dr. Dean Hamer, the director of the Gene Structure and Regulation Unit at the U.S. National Cancer Institute. Hamer has written a book on the subject titled, The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes.
According to this hypothesis, the God gene (Vmat2), is not an encoding for the belief in God itself but a physiological arrangement that produces the sensations associated, by some, with the presence of God or other mystic experiences, or more specifically spirituality as a state of mind.

Simply put, the gene is involved in monoamines, neurotransmitters that have a lot to do with emotional sensitivity. The interpretation is that the monoamines correlates with a personality trait called self-transcendence. Composed of three sub-sets, self-trancendance is composed of "self-forgetfulness" (as in the tendency to become totally absorbed in some activity, such as reading); "transpersonal identification" (a feeling of connectedness to a larger universe); and "mysticism" (an openness to believe things not literally provable, such as ESP). Put them all together, and you come as close as science can to measuring what it feels like to be spiritual. This allows us to have the kind of experience described as religious ecstasy.

What evolutionary advantage this may convey, or what advantageous effect it is a side effect of, are questions that are yet to be fully explored. However, Dr. Hamer has theorized that self-transcendence makes people more optimistic, which makes them healthier and likely to have more children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_gene

 
 


 
 
 

(Edited by Silas Geronimo Sconiers on 2/20, 8:08am)


Post 43

Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 1:06pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Silas:

     Thanx. THIS makes some subject-sense of what you're talking about.
As to it making sense integrally to what is known about beliefs and genes...eh-h-h-h...

     Getting back to discussing the ethics of creating the Hulk and Cyclops (or accidental TERMINAL MAN or ELEPHANT MAN) might be more relevent.

LLAP
J:D


Post 44

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 2:06pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I see the need but will they have rights?

At what level of comprehension will these life forums become human if at all and will the United Nations guarantee them life and liberty and the pursuit of happines afforded to the higher order of the  mammalian species? 

Affordance can refer to either of two related but distinct concepts. The term is used in the fields of perceptual psychology, cognitive psychology, environmental psychology, industrial design, human–computer interaction, interaction design and artificial intelligence.

Psychologist James J. Gibson originally introduced the term in his 1977 article "The Theory of Affordances," then explored it more fully in his book The Ecological Approach to Visual Perception in 1979. He defined affordances as referring to all "action possibilities" latent in the environment, objectively measurable, and independent of the individual's ability to recognize those possibilities, but always in relation to the animal. This means that action possibilities are dependent on the capabilities of the actor. For instance, a set of steps with risers four feet high does not afford the act of climbing, if the actor is a crawling infant. So affordances must be measured always in relation to the relevant actor(s).

In 1988, Donald Norman used the term affordance in the context of Human–Machine Interaction, popularizing it within the fields of HCI and interaction design. Later (see Norman, 1999) he had to admit he was not talking about "normal" affordance at all: in The Design of Everyday Things he was actually referring to perceived affordance. This distinction makes the concept dependent not only on the physical capabilities of the actor, but their goals, plans, values, beliefs and past experience. If an actor steps into a room with an armchair and a softball, Gibson's definition of affordance allows that the actor may toss the recliner and sit on the softball, because that is objectively possible. Norman's definition of (perceived) affordance captures the likelihood that the actor will sit on the recliner and toss the softball, because of their experience with them in the past. Effectively, Norman's affordance "suggest" how an object can be interacted with.

Norman's definition makes the concept of affordance relational, rather than subjective or objective. This he deemed an "ecological approach," which is related to systems-theoretic approaches in the natural and social sciences. On the other hand, the concept of perceived affordance (a la Norman) is much more pertinent to practical design problems from a human factors approach.

Perceptual psychologists can ask, "What is it about this object that makes people want to use it this way?" The object must talk to us with some sort of language. If we can understand this language, then designers can make tools that explain their own functions, and even tools that recommend themselves for some uses and discourage other uses.

Ecological cognition using neuroimaging studies suggests that when an actor either objectively or subjectively perceives an affordance, they will develop a plan to act on that affordance and will act on that plan unless they experience cognitive dissonance. Dissonance can lead to the actor using an object in a way other than the way it suggests through its affordance.
Norman's adaptation of the meaning of affordance has caused many people to also use the verb "afford", which the noun was derived from, in a new way that is not consistent with its dictionary definition. Rather than "to provide" or "to make available", designers and those in the field of HCI often use it as meaning "to suggest" or "to invite".

While the term "affordance" is a noun, it is not a "thing"—it is essentially an attribute of a thing. Therefore one would not refer to the "affordances of a web page" when speaking of navigation or behavioral elements like links and buttons. One refers to the links and buttons as elements which have either poor or excellent affordance. They either look like they will work or behave, or they don't. For instance, designers have recently taken to removing the underlining of linked text in content areas. They may even have gone so far as to change the default link colors to something more "neutral" or chromatically consistent with the color scheme of the web page. This actually creates poor affordance for the links, which need to stand out and be quite obviously links if they are to have good perceived affordance. An excellent way to test affordance is to print a web page off on a black and white printer and then ask someone unfamiliar with the page to highlight or circle all those elements they believe will do something when moused-over and clicked.




If they are afforded the rights and can't prevail then the question is what to do with them are they chattel and do they qualify for social services and should the owner be made to pay property tax on it and at what rate what is the value of chattel of that nature?

If it be deemed to be a direct threat to society shall it be put down after the first life taking or life threathning incident without trial?

(Edited by Silas Geronimo Sconiers on 2/21, 2:24pm)


Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Post 45

Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 1:01pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Silas,

I find your posts incomprehensible.  I'd be happy to engage in debate, if you could make a short concise point.  As for whether Obama is a hybrid, the question is ridiculous, unless you think that whites and blacks are different species.  A hybrid is defined as the offspring of two different species.  If the sloppy usages of racists and sensationalizing journalists are to be the basis for a discussion, then it can be held anywhere except on an objectivist website.  On this website, one would hope that words actually do have definite meanings.

Ted Keer


Post 46

Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 2:44pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Ted

Don't be to quick to render the debate dead because you don't agree.

Selective breeding and test tube babies are considered hybrids in a lot of social circles.

The question is>What is the Objectivist Position on Animal-Human Hybrids?


Your defenition of a hybrid is that of a text book which leaves no room for independent thinking. 

Hybridisation



I refute the lame definition and many do in all social circles weaker specis of the same species are often weeded out and the two strongest are often mated to produce hybrids

The topic of race is not what I am implying but in order to fully address this subject all the cards are going to have to be laid on the table and what is actually going on in the hybrid race.

The topic is not going to be explained away with a simple yes or no anwser and DESIGNER CHILDREN is what I'm talking about.

DESIGNER CHILDREN WITH A TWIST OF IMPLANTED GENES


Germline gene therapy for therapeutic reasons would not only weed out genetic traits for such inherited diseases such as down syndrome or hemophilia, but even the predisposition to catch diseases such as cancer and Alzheimers later in life. The implications of a widespread use of such therapy would mean that many diseases that afflict human beings would become far rarer or even nonexistent.

Some parents will be tempted to design their children with other traits. If potential parents want black haired, brown eyed children, they would be able to get them. They could order other traits such as intelligence, athletic ability, musical talent, physical beauty, and so on. Of course, many of these traits are determined just as much by environment and nurturing as they are by ones genetic makeup. What use, for example, is musical talent if it is never nurtured by training and exposure to great music?

http://www.howstuffworks.com/designer-children.htm

(Edited by Silas Geronimo Sconiers on 2/23, 12:01pm)


Post 47

Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 5:04pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Am very tempted to say - Troll alert........

Post 48

Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 5:40pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

The topic is very controversial and transcends emotions and is one that is very moot and race baiting is not implied  but pure honest debate of what the scientific community is doing and for what reason will it be used. 


The wealthy class are of all races and for them to want DESIGNER CHILDREN  is not a stretch of the imagination. 

The application of such research is at question.

If is not the question but when!


Some food for thought if you think I'm a troll I have ate chow with Dan Quayle and spent many days with Illinois former Senator Harrison son and was going to integrated schools while the nation was fighting over busing . 

Don't judge me debate me !

I know it might sound ridiculous but I 'm not here to destroy your theories but to point out there are other trains of thought.


Thats me  second row from bottom on the left 1962
 

  Asperger Syndrome?    

Sickle-cell disease

Can you read between the lines of the two illness above and the correlation to this topic?



(Edited by Silas Geronimo Sconiers on 2/23, 11:52am)


Post 49

Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 6:46pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Hard to follow with all the grammatical errors...

Post 50

Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 6:50pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Trying to clean it up but the gist is there.

Started on my evening night cap.

LOL

There be a message in the madness.

(Edited by Silas Geronimo Sconiers on 2/23, 1:23am)


Post 51

Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 7:41pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Whatever is considered "X" in certain social circles is of no importance in a factual debate based on reality. (That's opposed to, say, in an emotional debate based on appeals to opinion.) I have declared no debate finished, I have merely said that you are making meaningless noises which do not constitute a debate. In this social circle, meaningless noises are considered below contempt.

For one last time, as someone with a degree in biology and philosophy, (don't laugh, Teresa) I will be happy to engage you in a reasoned discussion on actual issues of import, if you can demonstrate an ability and interest in doing so. And while I don't believe I've ever posted drunk...well, let's not go there just yet.

Ted

Post 52

Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 7:49pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Your defenition of a hybrid is that of a text book which leaves no room for independent thinking. 

to begin with, is not 'my' definition, but the definition, by way of the concept involved - regardless of any 'social' viewing otherwise.... which, as such, demerits consideration of most of your diatribe, and leave nothing really to debate over......  'designer children', for instance, is NOT hybridization......


Post 53

Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 7:53pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Mr. Sconiers,

I'm not exactly sure what controversy you're talking about. I know if genetic engineering would do the trick and I knew how to do it I'd fix every perceived flaw I see in myself.

Let's see:

1. Add about fifty points to my I.Q. I always wondered what it would be like to be a genius.
2. Fix the hearing loss
3. Improve the memory by a factor of perhaps a thousand
4. Halt the aging process
5. Correct my height deficiency by about four inches (I've always thought six feet tall would be about perfect)
6. Fix the nearsightedness and astigmatism
7. Fix and improve other things after I got smart enough to think of them.

Of course, then being practically immortal and a genius with no physical flaws it would be a piece of cake to go out and have lots of children which I would make sure to be genetically perfect as well. If this process required "borrowing" genes from other species (or races) I don't see a problem. I'm a bit of a mix already, having English, Swede, Scot, Irish, German and Tuscarora Indian.

Post 54

Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 8:27pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Malcom,

Don't you hate when people rail against textbooks, but then don't wish to find the already existent words that they could have used to express their own ideas, had they understood their own ideas?

And are ye Glaswegian, or from Edinborough?

Mike,

Unfortunately, even with gene therapy, most of the structures affected or the damage done is already in place, and the mere presence now of genes that might have prevented the damage or ameliorated the imperfections one dislikes, had they been part of one's genome then - during development or at the time of function-loss will not reverse what already exists, or will do little better than slow further damage or loss. Unlike in the remake of the fly, Grundle-flies might start making fly blood proteins, rather than human blood serum. But existant bones would not turn into exoskeleton, once the developmental program had run its course.

Ted

Post 55

Friday, February 23, 2007 - 1:22amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Just got in at 3: am and full too the gills!

The debate is on !

The forum was dead!

Remember I only have a 12th grade education and you tolerate me and I hope you don't brand me as a troll. 

Look from my point of view and in my world these are the things people of my stature consider.

BACK TO THE RACES !


Jesting.


If I could still produce children and was wealthy and the designer opportunity was there I would avail myself to the prospect!

LOL

(Edited by Silas Geronimo Sconiers on 2/23, 12:13pm)


Post 56

Friday, February 23, 2007 - 1:29amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Mike

You get it !

LOL!!!!


Post 57

Friday, February 23, 2007 - 7:32amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Ted,

There is a bacterium called Deinococcus radiodurans that is extremely resistant to radiation and environmental extremes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinococcus_radiodurans

It has DNA repair mechanisms that allow it to repair damage rapidly as it occurs.

Now if you had some of those genes waiting in the wings, when they detect damage to the cell they zip out and repair the damage. The cell never ages! Presto, immortality. It's my understanding (from one of Matt Ridley books, I think) that there are long sequences of genes in our DNA that have no function, that they are remnants of ancient viruses that invaded early man that got "turned off" by subsequent adaptation. So, simply figure out a way to reengineer those genes and turn them on to do something useful. Sadly, I don't think that will happen in my lifetime. But, one day, perhaps "Supermen" will walk the face of the earth.

Post 58

Friday, February 23, 2007 - 12:39pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

GENE SPLICING



Chemicals called restriction enzymes act as the scissors to cut the DNA. Thousands of varieties of restriction enzymes exist, each recognizing only a single nucleotide sequence. Once it finds that sequence in a strand of DNA, it attacks it and splits the base pairs apart, leaving single helix strands at the end of two double helixes. Scientists are then free to add any genetic sequences they wish into the broken chain and, afterwards, the chain is repaired (as a longer chain with the added DNA) with another enzyme called ligase.


  1. So your saying as long as more human DNA is introduced its considered normal ?
  2. What is the classification of a human that has had its genes spliced with another human?
  3. I take it that from the consensus most approve of gene splicing and see nothing wrong with it.
  4. I have been asked to donate my body to medical science because of something I have in it should I do it or let evolution take its course?


(Edited by Silas Geronimo Sconiers on 2/23, 2:21pm)


Post 59

Friday, February 23, 2007 - 1:14pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

What benefit would it be to me and my family to donate donate my body to medical science?


I have been seen by doctors world wide and a team was flown in from south Africa to examine me major corporations have picked up the tab

I have one more segmental spinal column then any body else and it is hard wired and science does not know its function.

I have refused to allow any more probing and poking and will not donate my body.


Do I owe the world my body?


Segmental spinal Cord level and Function
  
LevelFunction
  
Cl-C6Neck flexors
Cl-T1Neck extensors
C3, C4, C5Supply diaphragm
C5, C6Shoulder movement, raise arm (deltoid); flexion of elbow (biceps); C6
 externally rotates the arm (supination)
C6, C7, C8Extends elbow and wrist (triceps and wrist extensors); pronates wrist
C7, C8, TlFlexes wrist
C8, TlSupply small muscles of the hand
Tl -T6intercostals and trunk above the waist
T7-LlAbdominal muscles
Ll, L2, L3, L4Thigh flexion
L2, L3, L4Thigh adduction
L4, L5, S1Thigh abduction
L5, S1 S2Extension of leg at the hip (gluteus maximus)
L2, L3, L4Extension of leg at the knee (quadriceps femoris)
L4, L5, S1, S2Flexion of leg at the knee (hamstrings)
L4, L5, S1Dorsiflexion of foot (tibialis anterior)
L4, L5, S1Extension of toes
L5, S1, S2Plantar flexion of foot
L5, S1, S2Nexion of toes





I have what science has named L6 what siginifiance it has I  don't know but they want to know.

(Edited by Silas Geronimo Sconiers on 2/23, 1:29pm)

(Edited by Silas Geronimo Sconiers on 2/23, 4:19pm)


Post to this threadBack one pagePage 0Page 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Forward one pageLast Page


User ID Password or create a free account.