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Post 20

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 6:28amSanction this postReply
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Heres the thing that thrills me no end - A warning like that from GS II will *increase* membership here by the thousands LOL

Post 21

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 6:43amSanction this postReply
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I agree with John Newnham.  What other cranks can we annoy enough to prompt them to "warn" other Objectivist forums about SOLO?

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Post 22

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 7:06amSanction this postReply
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Well folks,

I wrote some articles discussing the problems with Mr Firehammer's and Mr. Emrich's articles at The Autonomist. Right before adding them in, I came to the conclusion that such attention would excite them to no end. Let them rail and wail, rational people judge for themselves the (lack of) merit in what has been written about this site. Don't take our word for it. Read the posts here and at The Autonomist to see just how reasonable and rational these people are.

I, for one, embrace the reason, joy, and passion I find right here.

Ethan


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Post 23

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 7:11amSanction this postReply
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"attempt to infiltrate Objectivism with ideas of sexual license and hedonism."

Yep. I'm guilty as charged...;>)

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Post 24

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 7:12amSanction this postReply
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I might I add that if I got such a warning from a fellow like Stolyarov, I would RUN, not walk, RUN to such a group...best advertising SOLO ever got...

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Post 25

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 8:51amSanction this postReply
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This apocalypic warning sounds a lot like some warning against demons.

Respected Objectivists, I warn you, due to my admiration for your integrity and moral standards, not to fall into the intellectual trap that is SoloHQ, populated not by Objectivists but by post-modern nihilists/hedonists in Objectivist guise.
 
Reads more like:
 
Beware! Beware!  Mere association with SOLO is a Sin against Objectivism!  SOLO is the devil I tell you, come to trick you!  Turn back before its too late, turn back!   Your reason is impotent to discover the SOLOist traps, only through me can you understand the true path of Objectivism.  These people are sinners can't you see?

To think that he is in the top ten most quoted people on the SOLO sight is also interesting (though he quotes himself 11 of 15 times so I suppose it doesn't count for much.)  he ties Johann Wolfgang von Goethe for fourth place at 15 quotes.

~E.


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Post 26

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 9:13amSanction this postReply
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Dayamm Linz!

What the fuck is happening to the Solo spirit? You said good things about me? Shit. This thing is going down the tubes now.

Hate to spoil your party, but I am one who also finds your coined phrases to be an integral part of the Solo spirit - and I love them. I have had more than one belly-laugh from their wit and touch of rat poison. I was just making a comment for newbies who may not understand where they came from when they log on the middle of a discussion.

Find something else to complain about me - and hurry up! Come on! Be quick about it! Dayamm! My head is spinning... I'm suddenly so disoriented...

(thud)

//;-)

Michael


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Post 27

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 3:31pmSanction this postReply
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Mick:

"So why was this guy I always found to be a misguided, very smart bastard allowed to post so many articles that were absolute rubbish before he was banned (or self imposed exile?)"

That was exactly my point, and I brought it up to Linz and Joe, and rather publicly, too. The overwhelming response [paraphrasing] was that anyone who can put together a reasonable argument re: their position ought to be able to contribute, and let the marketplace of ideas sort out the 'winner.' My response was that by giving a crackpot a stage, and with how prolific Stoly was, you ran a risk of visitors to the site thinking SOLO was a den of crackpots with Herr Stoly as Grand Marshall. It seems that most internet crackpots are very prolific writers. Eventually, he wore out his welcome, as all nutjobs do. I was happy to see him go.


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Post 28

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 6:46pmSanction this postReply
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Alec writes:

I just hope another member of the Chicago Objectivist group sends out an open letter refuting this drivel...

I am on said listserve, and have just sent the following:

To those who yet have an unformed opinion of SOLO, simply visit the website and peruse the content. "Lurk" for a while.  I'm confident that the majority of you will find it intriguing.  Keep in mind, after all, that Mr. Stolyarov was an extremely active participant at SOLO for over a year before his falling out with the heads of the organization.
 
An excerpt from Stolyarov's recent SOLO condemnation email (from this listserve) was posted to the SOLO website recently, as many of you may have noticed.  Here is a link to the quote as well as the ensuing discussion.  (In my view, Michael Stuart Kelly's post #13 is a particularly accurate and eloquent elaboration on the general culture of SOLO and how that conflicted with Mr. Stolyarov's atheistic social conservatism):
 
 
SOLO features a fascinating group of people with a diverse array of backgrounds and areas of expertise.  There is a level of informality present which differentiates it from other Objectivist websites and some people apparently interpret this as "post-modern nihilism" and "hedonism."  But don't take my word for it; visit www.solohq.com.
If the peppering of informal banter strikes you as excessive, no one will force you to stay -- in fact, they will gladly show you the door! 
 
Pete Linn
 
PS- Heidi, if you plan to contribute at SOLO more, you may want to consider using capital letters.  The potential alternative would be to face the wrath of Perigo, as per the following: http://solohq.com/Spirit/Announcements/2.shtml J

(Edited by Pete on 5/31, 8:59pm)


Post 29

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 7:34pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks, Pete, for sticking up for us.

- Jeff

Post 30

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 8:37pmSanction this postReply
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Well said, Pete!

Ed


Post 31

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 9:05pmSanction this postReply
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I must say, you needn't worry that Gennady's statement will stop Chicago email members from coming to see your site for themselves.

As for me, I haven't noticed any nihilism yet. Where are you hiding it?

Post 32

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 9:25pmSanction this postReply
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Michael Stuart Kelly wrote:
From what I have seen so far, you have to work really hard at being an asshole to get banned or moderated around here. It just doesn't happen by accident, nor does it happen for one or two grumpy posts that cross the line bigtime of good taste and rationality. Toleration actually is quite high in this respect.
I was quite surprised to hear this. Michael, all, I would appreciate feedback on my behavior, especially on specific posts. Please use my email, or post publically if you think your post is on topic.

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Post 33

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 9:41pmSanction this postReply
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Dean,

LOLOLOLOL...

I wasn't talking about you. I was using the editorial "you," meaning "a person."

Sorry for the misunderstanding. You ( now I mean you-Dean) are one of the good guys. Go study or something. LOLOL... You gotta a lot of work to do and you have a wonderful mind to do it with.

Michael


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Post 34

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 9:52pmSanction this postReply
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Well, here is what I posted to the Chicago Group.....


Sweet and Sour Solo?

 

A question was posted to the Chicago Objectivist Group, New Intellectual Forum asking people if they were active in Solo. A few positive responses came in and one extremely negative response came back….. from Gennedy Stolyarov II…. a stultifying specter from Solo’s past. I posted the first sentence of his response on Solo as a quote because not only do I find it humorous, but also to highlight some of the “other side’s” pettiness in the Solo v. The Autonomist schism…which is actually kind of sad.

 

Here is the part I posted (http://solohq.com/Forum/Quotes/0688.shtml):

 

“I warn you, due to my admiration for your integrity and moral standards, not to fall into the intellectual trap that is SoloHQ, populated not by Objectivists but by post-modern nihilists/hedonists in Objectivist guise.”

 

The lengthy rant from which this quote was taken presents one side of a Solo-slamming non-issue. Now, since I am the Solo Illinois Coordinator, I guess his e-mail was aimed at me also, meaning that I myself am a post-modern nihilist/hedonist in Objectivist guise. Whatever.  So just for the record, I would like to present a bit of the other side.


The essential matter of the issue comes down to the simple fact that the guy is not an Objectivist. He is not one of us and does not belong there. He is like a lost bible thumper without a church and is thumping Atlas Shrugged instead. He lost his magnificent Solo cathedral and now has to content himself with a backwoods Argumentator revivalist slapped-together tent. So (and rightly so, I will add) he was given his stupid cartoon hat and shown the door. He has his own agenda which is given exposure at his site as well as at the Autonomist. Solo doesn’t want him.

 

Personally I don’t want him around me at all. He gives me the creeps and I wouldn’t want a guy like him anywhere near my children. Something just ain’t right about him.

 

I will also add that very, very few are shown the door at Solo. You have to be pretty darned abusive to be asked to leave or even to be moderated. There are heated discussions all over the place. Disagreements happen all the time. Lots of pissing contests…but pissing in Linz’s face?  Not cool. You will be asked to stop, then you will be moderated, then banned. That was what happened with the phacist phive, Stoly’s clique. Stoly had another problem, though. A very voluminous problem, one bigger than his head. Boredom overkill. He just plain wrote too much crap.

 

 

Crackpot Sour Grapes

 

Rather than go into a lengthy discussion of what happened, I will mention a few points and let the people from Solo state their own words.

 

Stoly complained that he was one of the Solo biggie’s from June 2003 to August 2004. He brags that no other member matched the quality and quantity of his contributions. Then he complains that he was “informally” banned. Since Stoly did not give the links to what actually happened to him, here are a few quotes and links, if anyone is interested.

 

What kicked it all off was an announcement by Lindsay Perigo entitled SOLO and Stolyarov  (http://solohq.com/Spirit/News/61.shtml) in August 2004. This announcement generated 105 posts, both for and against. So I would say that Stoly got a pretty good hearing. Here is a quote from the announcement by Linz:

 

“But more recently, a friend apprised me of Mr Stolyarov’s position on voluntary euthanasia (and, incidentally, on the desirable legal—i.e. illegal, according to Mr Stolyarov—status of drugs, including nicotine). When I read this I was horrified—and incredulous—and realized that a line in the sand had to be drawn. I resolved at that moment that in no way would I permit the impression to be created that, simply because Mr Stolyarov is a prolific contributor to SOLOHQ—one whose articles and posts have been unimpeachable and inspiring as often as they’ve been appalling, both in letter and spirit—he and SOLO are in any way aligned. We are not. That is what I wish to make clear here. The last thing I would wish is for visitors to SOLOHQ to observe the sheer volume of Mr Stolyarov’s articles and posts and conclude that he is the arch-embodiment of SOLO. This most assuredly is not the case.”

 

So Stoly flooded Solo with material. Why would he do that? Audience of course. If you have a lot of free time on your hands and feeling masochistic, you can read the all 105 posts that follow.

 

Now was (is) Stoly banned from Solo? Two links and quotes from the thread under my own content posting are pretty clear:

 

Jeff Landauer (Solo Webmaster)

http://solohq.com/Forum/Quotes/0688.shtml#12

 

He was never banned. He degenerated into the habit of making thread after thread and post after post that were nothing but insults and nonsense, and we set him to moderated status. He didn't like having his contributes judged as worthy or not based on the content, but we had to do it because he was spamming up the site to no end.

 

Lindsay Perigo (Solo Founder and Principal)

http://solohq.com/Forum/Quotes/0688.shtml#17

 

Stolyarov was never banned; he was placed under moderation--long after his pompous twattery became unendurable. I agree, in hindsight, that we should have repudiated him far sooner. His obnoxious, ludicrous conceit and phascist views had long since made it clear that an Objectivist he was not.

 

If you want to read the side that Stoly did not present, in all the gory details, it is all there on the above thread and the first one.

 

All I can conclude is that Stoly is a crackpot who wanted an Objectivist audience for whatever reason. Solo gave him that audience and he went overboard. He was called on it, his feelings got hurt and he mouthed off, he was moderated and then he stomped off in a huff. Rejection hurts I guess.

 

Why do these people want to be on Solo so badly anyway? Well, it’s the spirit and the people.

 

 

The Spirit of Solo

 

SOLO stands for Sense of Life Objectivists. We are a bunch of people who have found an online community friendly to our philosophy which is based in varying degrees on the writings of Ayn Rand. It is a very open community and all are welcome who are interested in Objectivism, at least for awhile. Most people come and stay or leave on their own. I’m staying put.

 

If you are interested in what Solo’s aims are, check out the Credo: http://solohq.com/About/Credo.shtml.

 

I found not only a community at Solo, but I fell in love at Solo. Yup, I found my soul mate… the person in my life that I couldn’t imagine being without, Michael Stuart Kelly. We are an Objectivist fairy tale come true. We even wrote a story about it that reflects the spirit of what we found on Solo—the Solo sense of life (which happens to be our own): http://solohq.com/Articles/Katdaddy/The_Virtue_of_Silliness.shtml.

 

I do not think it was merely an accident that we met there. We are two-of-a-kind who migrated to Solo to be with others-of-our-kind—because that is one place where you can find them. Objectivists know that good Objectivist friend and mate material is very hard to come by. It’s a cold, hard world out there, my friends.

 

Of course Michael is reason enough for me to hang out at Solo. But there are other reasons. Consider these:

 

-          Interacting with the likes of Barbara Brandon, Chris Sciabarra, Robert Bininotto, Tibor Michan, Lindsay Perigo, Joseph Rowlands and Others (see them all here: http://solohq.com/People)

 

-          Lively discussions that range anywhere from deep philosophy, politics to light hearted joking and not so tasteful attempts at humor

 

-          New articles and fresh material on a daily basis

 

-          Making lots of new friends online with a similar world view

 

-          Being philosophically visible to others (for a change)

 

-          It is highly addictive

 

I suggest you go take a look for yourself. Don’t let Stoly or even me be your judge. After all, that’s what being a rational self-interest individual is all about, isn’t it?

 

See ya at Solo,

 

Kathy Wheeler

(aka katdaddy)

Solo Illinois Coordinator

 


Post 35

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 10:01pmSanction this postReply
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Too true, John!  Gennady's email will, if anything, bring more of us curious Chicagoan NIFers to check out SOLO.  I, for one, am beginning to find the site addictive, and I believe Heidi is, as well.  It's a good thing school's out!
I hope Gennady will start to broaden his horizons when he gets to college.  He's bright enough to be an asset, if he steps outside the box he's built for himself.


Post 36

Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 3:23amSanction this postReply
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I've never yet seen a discussion forum which didn't describe itself, and sincerely believe itself, to be extremely tolerant and open to dissent. I've never yet seen a forum where someone was improperly banned, and a mob of its members didn't immediately, enthusiastically chime in that such a banning was proper and just, and that the individual should have been banned long ago. I've never yet seen a forum where such bannings weren't occasions for assiduous sycophancy by mediocrities to the banning authorities. Maybe such discussion forums exist -- but I've never seen one.  

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Post 37

Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 5:11amSanction this postReply
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Michael, woopsie! Now that I re-read what you wrote, I don't see how I could have thought what I did. Hmmm... maybe I read too much badly written English, from which my English-language parser broke. Thanks for the clarification! : )
(Edited by Dean Michael Gores
on 6/01, 5:17am)


Post 38

Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 8:01pmSanction this postReply
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katdaddy, that was a great response letter!

Ed


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Post 39

Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 9:20pmSanction this postReply
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Andre,

I would like to address the insinuation you made about Solo resorting to unjust excommunications. You don't say that - but your insinuations are clear enough.

I, more than many around here hold a particular repugnance to mob condemnations. I personally have entered into two of them to try to help stem what I judged to be unfair treatment - one with Michael Newberry as target and the other defending Shayne Wissler, of all people. This last was incipient, but all the signs were there of getting ready to take off. I have always been one of his harshest critics on Randroidism, but when the tide started rumbling, I joined him.

I, and the woman I love, have also been targeted - for purring too often and in the wrong places of all the stupid goddam reasons.

We weathered it. We stayed. Michael Newberry stayed. Shayne apparently has left, but I don't think he was even moderated - so he could have stayed if he wanted to.

These are my credentials to say what I now will say.

I have looked over a good deal of Stoly's material, read through countless posts and tried to stomach his poetry. All this stuff happened and was written before I joined Solo, except the e-mail that Kat posted and answered (as did Pete).

From what I have seen, there was a tremendous imbalance occurring that was prejudicial to Solo's growth - a flood of material that did not reflect Solo's spirit style-wise (all that stilted formality in just plain boring posts and articles). He also opposed many of the predominant philosophical positions that Solo was founded to advance.

When a guest poster becomes so loud and long that he/she is no longer merely dissenting and/or offering other viewpoints, but trying to become policy and advance a personal or political agenda instead, it is time for an evaluation. This holds true for any similar situation in any organization anywhere in the world.

Something had to be done about Stoly to avoid mischaracterizing Solo. An announcement was made. The rest is history if you would like to read it. The links are in Kat's post and I or she will gladly send you a copy of Stoly's full e-mail so you can get all the Firehammer links he mentions (including the one for that other guy) criticizing Solo. Then you judge for yourself.

I personally do not see mob bloodlust aimed at Stoly. As I mentioned, I am pretty good at smelling it. On the contrary, I see that the door is still open to him, albeit a moderated one to avoid the kind of excesses that went on before.

And I see that, from what I recently read (and thus presume), the Solo spirit was going down the tubes due to a high-school student!

Dayamm!

I could go on and on about the admiration I feel for the founders of this forum, about the fact that I met the woman I love here, that I realized a 30 year dream and finally became a friend (albeit a distant one for the time being) of Barbara Branden here, that I have felt more intellectually visible here than practically anywhere else in my entire life, about many things. But I have said these things and more already, many times. 

I am only talking about excommunication, banning, mob action and whatnot. What you imply is simply not true. It has no corresponding events in the reality I have experienced here (and even researched) to support it.

Solo is a forum for free and preferably passionate discussion of ideas concerning Objectivism and related issues. It is not a soapbox for spouting off propaganda against its very own spirit. The administration does well to protect that spirit through moderation and banning when needed. If not, it could very well cease to exist. Our kind of people (and I know that you are one) will simply go elsewhere if that spirit dies.

That is why I don't agree with you when you say, after a diatribe on mob practices, "Maybe such discussion forums exist -- but I've never seen one."

All I can say is, "Oh yes you have. You post on it. It's called Solo. The fact that I'm even here at all is proof."

Michael

(Edited by Michael Stuart Kelly on 6/01, 9:25pm)


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