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Monday, December 12, 2005 - 6:33amSanction this postReply
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Never read that one before. Insightful.

---Landon


Post 1

Monday, December 12, 2005 - 6:57amSanction this postReply
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Nathaniel Branden has a full essay on the meaning of Jesus. It used to be on line. It elaborates on this view (if I remember correctly) and includes a discussion of the "believe me because I claim to be who I am" approach, i.e., do not think.

Michael


Post 2

Monday, December 12, 2005 - 5:46pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks, I never looked at it that way.

Post 3

Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 4:03pmSanction this postReply
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I have to disagree with Rand on this one and take my lumps in being labeled a "Bad Objectivist". the disagreement lies in the word "sacrifice", which in Ayn Rand's definition is the substitution of a greater value for a lesser value or no value at all. Well, according to the Christian story, Jesus was crucified and died. However, he came back to life a couple days later, then rose up to Heaven to sit at the right hand of God to reign as "King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, Halleluja", as the words of Handel's "Mesiah" goes. Now, if good old J.C had stayed dead, then perhaps we could legitimately call it a sacrifice. However, it is apparent that the Son of God made out pretty damn good in the end. Sacrifice?! Hell No!

Post 4

Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 9:19pmSanction this postReply
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Not 'bad', just ignorant... obviously not got much more than sunday school versions to suck on...

Post 5

Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 11:03amSanction this postReply
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Robert, yea, my thoughts too.

But anyway, did Jesus know he would be brought back to life? Becuase that is the only way Paul's version would not be an example of sacrifice. And if Paul's version was supposed to be a joke, well, heh! Okay thats funny.

[Handel's Messiah, the best thing to ever come out of Christianity] :)

Post 6

Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 2:54pmSanction this postReply
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I hadn't thought of that quote in a long, long time. I think it is because I have been too long in the thick of discussion (well, it's more often like blood sport) inside of the Objectivist world, at least the Internet one).

I want to keep my comments tight on this one, but it ain't gonna be easy... :)

On the whole, of all the experiences with people I have ever had (at least on the intellectual or word plane, the writing plane), if I were to count them, there is no doubt that I have nothing but a giant pile of great people from my years with Objectivism, which started around '79 when I read Atlas Shurgged and the top of my head pretty much got blown off. There are so many. In no particular order and by far incomplete, I think of Nathaniel Branden, Barbara Branden, Chis Sciabarra, Walter Foddis... those were some of the first ones. Ellen Stuttle. Roger B. Pretty much the whole endless family feud on Atlantis II. Everyone that didn't get expunged from the Branden Yahoo site. Nathan Hawking.  Now, Mike Kelley and Kat, for two. Linz, for not blowing my ass out of his website just on principle. Joe R. There are dozens and dozens. There is goodness, decency, and honor in Objectivism.

I bring all that up, not to just follow Oscar acceptance speech format (for I have won nothing, but I often feel like I have), but to point out the pure human goodness that I have always not just intellectually grasped, but more importantly, felt, deep in my being. To read that quote brought it back to me full core. For us fighting and feisty types in Objectivism, this might be the be all and end all, because Miss Rand said it. What she said, in essence, is that people got Jesus wrong. Praise be...  Like George Burns in Oh God (as God) said about Jesus, he had many sons, that one just got the most publicity. :)

Objectivists are good people. They are quality people.

"If you have an unpleasant nature, it is no obstacle to The Work."- J.G. Bennett

My interests have changed, or at least, they have become more focused. Yesterday, I was ready to leave here for good. Sorry to those who would otherwise applaud. I have too much invested in Objectivism to leave it behind. I will build to it, but I not only won't leave it, I can't, because it is part of my inner structure as a human being. Objectivism shaped me for the positive. It literally contributed to me doing things on a world-class, and it allowed me to look at life in a more affirming way.

I am a Unitarian Universalist, now. Yes, I am technically a mystic, a "religionist" (whatever the fuck that is or where it came from).

My interests are about using everything Objectivism has to help heal the world, before it is too late. Objectivists have highly concentrated, specific talents.

This quote, it should be on billboards... ;)

rde
painfully annoying


Post 7

Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 4:59pmSanction this postReply
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It was St Paul who made 'son of God' into the phrase as we know of it today - 'son of God' is an old Jewish phrase which meant, in essence, 'favored' of their deity... David was a 'son of God', as was Solomon... the same with Elijah [and others, whom not remember off the bat]... it was not until Paul invented the religion as totally separate from Judaism that it took the mystic notion ascribed to it today [see The Mythmaker}...

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Post 8

Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 7:07pmSanction this postReply
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What she said, in essence, is that people got Jesus wrong. Praise be...
Where do you gather that she said this?  What exactly do you think she is saying?


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