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Saturday, January 9, 2010 - 9:10pmSanction this postReply
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Ole' Friedrich. Could not get past the idea of the predator-prey (i.e., master-slave) relationship.

Could not even envision -- and, therefore, could never understand -- the concept of consensual trade to mutual benefit. The concept of unprecedented progress from the purposeful divisions of labor, focus, and talent.

How in-(or anti-)human of him.

Ed

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Saturday, January 9, 2010 - 9:32pmSanction this postReply
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How, Ed, should Francisco have regarded Galt after the latter took Dagny from him? Many men would have chosen to play the part of the lamb, victimized by the eagle. Francisco chose to remain an eagle, he did not resent his better. That is what the poetic meaning of this metaphor is. This is not about the taste of veal or the feelings of animals. To treat this as pertaining to plain politics is to miss the point.

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Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 8:04amSanction this postReply
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Ted, this part:

***********
And when the lambs say among themselves, "These birds of prey are evil, and he who least resembles a bird of prey, who is rather its opposite, a lamb,—should he not be good?" then there is nothing to carp with in this ideal's establishment ...
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... befuddles me. Nietzsche says there's nothing to "carp" about when weak folks establish moral tribalism (us-good; them-bad). Am I misunderstanding the word "carp" or are you misunderstanding the literal interpretation of his chosen words?

Ed

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Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 12:19pmSanction this postReply
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The point is that whatever the facts, the resentment is beside the point, a self-delusional way that people comfort themselves in the face of a reality they don't like. Nietzsche isn't saying that he sides with the eagles politically. He's saying that if the lambs were psychologically serious they would arm themselves and develop a taste for roast bird.

This is the same issue as people getting upset when, just after 9/11, some people described the hijackers as having been braver than the Americans.

Or the shock on the left that Camille Paglia said that they way for homos to deal with gay bashing is for the victims to physically fight back.

As a wise woman has said, feelings are the feeler's responsibility. If you are annoyed because you think someone else makes you look bad, don't carp with the other sheep at how you are being victimized. Work on your own game.

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Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 12:49pmSanction this postReply
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As I said, my objection to Teresa's quoting me was not that I'm embarrassed by the words quoted but because they were being used to attack me.

Ted, it would be better if you wouldn't weave me into your posts with what feel like denigrating and snide comments. I value being able to discuss the ideas without having to deal the references me.

(Edited by Steve Wolfer on 1/10, 1:47pm)


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Post 5

Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 1:46pmSanction this postReply
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Ted, I think that "feelings are the feeler's responsibility" is just a way for assholes to blame their victims.  We had plenty of that back when Perigo was here.  It's never the fault of the person who's being rude, disgusting, or vicious.  We should view him as a hero, giving us the opportunity to "grow" and "develop a thick skin".  We should celebrate the foul-mouthed person who likes to tear down instead of building up.  And anyone who says otherwise is a pansy!

Give me a break.

If you want to make the point that civility is pointless and there's nothing wrong personally attacking other people (or perhaps it's morally virtuous!), I'd be interested to see you attempt it.  Anyone who just wants to put it into practice should know that there's a website already devoted to it called SOLO.


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