About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unread


Post 0

Sunday, September 4, 2011 - 7:56pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Another gem by Savulescu (at minute 26:30) is this:
Liberal democracy is around 200 years old. It arose at around the time of the Industrial Revolution, as we were able to produce more and own more. It's characterized by empowering individuals, bestowing the maximum range of freedoms possible, tolerance and liberal neutrality between different conceptions of the good life and different value systems, multiculturalism, and tolerance to minorities. However, in a world of radical technological advance, it enables violent minorities to access the means of destruction. It also provides a poor basis for cooperation and coordination at a global level.
Of note is that this is a guy who openly argues (see my related blog) for genetically engineering people to be carriers of his morality.

Ed


Post 1

Sunday, September 4, 2011 - 9:35pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
And, from part 2 of this video (see links below), at minute 21:20 and during the Q & A section, Savulescu responds to a questioner who asked if we should alter peoples' genes/biology against their will:

But the public interest exception to that, I think, will kick in more this century. And, as you say, if it's the case that administering 'something' [mass pharmaco-genetic manipulation] will promote more prosocial behaviors, and that behavior is necessary for the survival of society, then it may be that we need to do that. ... It may be that we need to adopt strategies that target our biology, and those may need to be done for the whole population.
Link to Part 1:
http://vimeo.com/7515623

Link to Part 2
http://vimeo.com/7681585

Reminds me of the movie Equilibrium where folks were forced to take a mind-altering drug in order to make them compliant with the authorities.

Ed


Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 2

Sunday, September 4, 2011 - 10:54pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
One of Obama's current czars - the science czar, John Holden - is Obama's advisor for Science and Technology, Director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, and Co-Chair of the President’s Council of Advisors on Science and Technology (PCAST).

He is on record with co-author Paul Ehrlich, in the textbook, "Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment" where he says we may need to take extraordinary measures for depopulation by mass sterilization through drugs in water supplies and forced sterilization of women who have already had a specified number of children.

Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 3

Monday, September 5, 2011 - 4:23amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
SW wrote:

... he says we may need to take extraordinary measures for depopulation by mass sterilization through drugs in water supplies and forced sterilization of women who have already had a specified number of children.

We definitely need to take extraordinary measures for depopulation of the federal government by mass reform through grassroots activism at the electorate level and forced term limits on politicians and their appointees who have already served a specified number of terms.

I do not see how Savulescu's arguments differ in principle from those of Hitler and the Aryan race premise. Other than the "window dressing" of hair, skin, and eye color, did not the idealized Aryans share traits with Savulescu's idealized "genetically cooperative and altruistic" people? I think the Soviets had this notion, too.

I think Savulescu wants to transform the human race into one giant bee hive populated with worker bees and drones while appointing himself as the queen bee!

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 9/05, 5:59am)


Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 4

Monday, September 5, 2011 - 8:52amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Luke,

I do not see how Savulescu's arguments differ in principle from those of Hitler and the Aryan race premise. Other than the "window dressing" of hair, skin, and eye color, did not the idealized Aryans share traits with Savulescu's idealized "genetically cooperative and altruistic" people? I think the Soviets had this notion, too.

I think Savulescu wants to transform the human race into one giant bee hive populated with worker bees and drones while appointing himself as the queen bee!

Exactly. On this note, the question and answer period (20 minutes into second video) was actually pretty good, as the audience was skeptical and intelligent about this. A gal in the audience remarked that we do not live in Plato's Republic, where there is one or a group of philosopher-kings to direct us on what to do next with our lives. She asked Savulescu, in the absence of philosopher-kings, who is it that is going to decide whether someone is a menace to society and a candidate for genetic manipulation for the greater good or the public interest. He couldn't answer, and was visibly distressed by having people asking him probing questions like that - asking him about what his ideas would mean if applied to real life.

He did not like having to deal with the reality of other people.

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 9/05, 8:54am)


Post to this thread


User ID Password or create a free account.