RoR: Forum

Beyond the standard socialist agenda that you would expect from Obama, I saw a few notable points:

1. He wants lots of troops on the Mexican border to prevent people from crossing the border (one direction explicit, another direction not so obvious).

2. He wants to move towards disarming americans by looking for ways to reduce circulation of politically undesirable weapons and making it more difficult to buy guns for yourself and to trade them with others. This point was made with an emotional appeal to take action and save the children by vote vote vote voting.

Post 1

Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 4:06pm

I like the idea of troops on the border till it can be secured, but then open the doors to guest workers - wide open to everyone without criminal records and not on the terrorist list.

Let them come in legally, get a guest worker card that is the equivalent of a social security card, and the FICA payments against that card would be a guest worker tax. And no one under guest worker status would be eligible for any government entitlements.
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Nothing coming from the left regarding gun control meets the test of common sense or constitutionality. It is just the liberal's fearful aversion to the masses having weapons (maybe it makes them feel nervous about trying to take away someone's liberty and property when that person is armed).
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And, that quote, coming from a Progressive, means, "I'll define the obligations, and you will have to sacrifice to meet them."

Post 2

Thursday, February 14, 2013 - 4:29pm

Steve, do you really like the idea of making America a prison yard 3000 by 1500 miles? If they cannot get in, you cannot get out. Never has any political border been a semi-permeable membrane.

Post 3

Thursday, February 14, 2013 - 8:09pm

Michael,

I really wish you'd pay attention to what you are writing.

do you really like the idea of making America a prison yard 3000 by 1500 miles? If they cannot get in, you cannot get out.

A prison is an unpleasant place where one is forcefully locked away for committing a crime. America doesn't meet any part of that description. We can leave the country when we chose to, either for a temporary visit elsewhere or to leave permanently and I've never proposed any change to that.

When you say that locking our borders to people coming in is the same as locking them to people going out you are just spouting nonsense. If you have a lock on your front door does that mean you can't get back in? Should we not have jails, because if they can lock up criminals they can lock up us?

Perhaps you didn't read that part of my post that said the country should be open to guest workers as long as they enter legally where we prohibit only the entry of criminals and terrorists. Do you have locks on your doors? Do you use them? Don't you act with some selectivity about who comes into your home? That's part of the idea. The other part is that citizenship shouldn't be an automatic civil right available to anyone that crawls under a fence.

You seem to give the border sufficient significance that you note the difference of being on one side of it versus the other - otherwise you could argue that people in other countries have as much right to vote in our elections as we do. If a border is some meaningless line on a map, why not give the vote to anyone who wants to exercise it - even if they reside in, say, China? The border makes a difference and it is a greater difference than your unfortunate statements account for.

Post 4

Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 5:38am

Steve, you complain about the excessive powers of the Federal government - of all government, really - and then imagine that if you call for this or that policy that your own wishes will be the instantiation of the policy you called for.

You want to limit immigration to "guest workers" and others approved by the government... now that the Wolfers long ago voted with their feet and came here from Wolferland. Who approved them?

As you say, everyone on Earth should vote in our elections. Truly, I believe that it makes perfect sense for all of Earth to have one government. However, before that can happen, much else needs to be in place first. Every community gets the government it deserves. The consequential effort is in the teaching of metaphysics and epistemology. Once we have a culture based on reason and reality, the rest will follow.

As for the locks on my doors, this is my property. I own it or the right to it, this being a rental. Does the government own the nation? Apparently, you believe that it does.

Post 5

Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 1:46pm

Michael,

Steve, you complain about the excessive powers of the Federal government - of all government, really - and then imagine that if you call for this or that policy that your own wishes will be the instantiation of the policy you called for.

1.) When government power is excessive, then we should complain about it.
2.) You are wrong in saying that I complain about all government. I don't complain about appropriate government use of defensive or retaliatory force, or about having civil courts, and or about other features of our government.
3.) When you thought you were reading my mind, maybe your were accidentally reading someone else's, because I haven't ever imagined that all I had to do was call for a policy and it would be instantiated - immediately or ever.
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As you say, everyone on Earth should vote in our elections.

WHAT? I didn't say that. What I said was that YOUR argument implied that YOU believed that. I said, "If a border is some meaningless line on a map, why not give the vote to anyone who wants to exercise it - even if they reside in, say, China?"
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As for the locks on my doors, this is my property. I own it or the right to it, this being a rental. Does the government own the nation? Apparently, you believe that it does.

You are renting a place, which means that you have ownership in certain actions regarding that dwelling. Such as living in it. You don't have ownership of the right to sell the property.

The citizens of the United States have ownership in certain actions in our nation: Use of public places, access to courts, voting privileges, etc. The government is the manager of the property. Access to the country (visiting from a foreign nation, or immigrating) is set by laws, the laws are passed by the representatives of the owners. Those laws are administered by the administration.

Of course I believe that the citizens of the United States own that portion of the nation that is public property - who do think owns that?

Post 6

Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 5:09am

Slick has found an "obligation to future generations" to include consuming all of their credit, heaping impossible piles of crushing debt upon them, all in the name of spending now on things he'd like to see among his connected crony political supporters.

All the while he is in perpetual 'campaign' mode, a shuckin' and a jivin' and a sylin' his way across staged photo ops, complete with smiling public service employees in uniform in the background, standing at attention, like this was twenties Germany. That is an entirely accurate characterization of his totally affected 'shuffle' across the stage at these public speaking events; he looks like the political equivalent of Meadowlark Lemon easing on down the lane for a behind the back layup...

He, too, is making them swoon with weak knees, weak hearts, and weak minds.

Ein Volk...ein Reich....the world has heard this carny sweet talk before. Here it comes again.

Time magazine recently had a picture of Slick on stage, complete with derigeur 'head framed in halo and chorus of angelic public employees in uniform behind him, singing Glory Hallelulejah!'

I made it my wallpaper on my laptop. It makes me laugh out loud every time I see it, imagining a world where millions fall for this stage act. That is exactly what drives this sinking lifeboat.

regards,
Fred

Post 7

Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 7:16am

Fred,

Regarding "Slick" (a moniker I found to be utterly hilarious, by the way) you surmised:

That is exactly what drives this sinking lifeboat.

... Which brought to my mind a scene from a movie, a comedy which I believe was called Erik the Viking, wherein the King actually does end up on a sinking lifeboat, repeating in a high voice:

This is not happening. This is not happening!

:-)

Ed

p.s., If someone could post a YouTube clip of this, I'd be grateful.

Post 8

Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 3:25pm

Ed:

All the Harlem Globetrotter greats had a nickname.

"Curly"... "Glide"...etc.

Barack Hussein "Slick" Obama

The only downside is, it is close to "Slick-Willy", but then, he is close to Slick-Willy, so not a problem.

regards,
Fred

Post 9

Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 3:40pm

Ed:

And as I've pointed out already:

Slick-Willy campaigned on the must-haves:

1] Stimulus Plan(didn't pass)
2] Nationalized Health Care(didn't pass)
3] BTU Tax(didn't pass)

Great ills were going to befall America if none of that happened.

None of that happened...and the economies grew, and Slick-Willy took credit for not getting what he asked for.

Slick, OTOH, got everything he asked for(with Bush 2008's help):

Stimulus Plan: check
Nationalized Health Care/Obamacare: check
New Taxes: check

And now, for the current mess, both Slick and Slick-Willy are either taking credit or sharing blame with the GOP for either going along with him or fighting him too much, depends on what day it is.

90s: A nation, relieved that the Erah of Big Guvmint was Ovah, and Congress safely occupied with the stains on Monica Lewinsky's dress, breathed a sigh of releief that America was not lurching Left...and the economies grew, creating surplusses.

See? We need to do what Clinton did:

1] Did not get stimulus
2] Did not get Nationized Health Care
3] Did not get BTU Tax

4] Did implement "austerity" by leveling off the Reagan Defense buildup, reducing in real dollars the amount of defense spending. (What we are calling a catastrophe in 2013.)

America is Mr. No Short Term Memory Man. For us, it's all about a symbolic 3.6% surcharge on income over six times AWI...

Well, don't we have that today? Though, at maybe 8 times AWI....

Still, these economies should be roaring, any day now...

I mean, excerpt for all the other glop that Bush 2008/Obama did that Clinton didn't do...

regards,
Fred

Post 10

Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 6:47pm

Fred,

Here is the highly-relevant, modestly-entertaining, 90-second video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ599TQUiug

See how he kept stressing to look at the "facts." And I'm not sure if you noticed, but they altered the way the CPI is calculated and ... wouldn't you know it ... but we didn't have any inflation in December 2012 or in January 2013! It's ... it's ... it's like it's not even happening to us!

This is not happening!

:-)

Ed

Post 11

Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 7:38pm