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Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 11:33amSanction this postReply
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As writer-in-residence here, I guess one could surmise that I am decidedly for the efforts of both Solo and Free Radical. But what is important to get across is the reason I am here: this is, without question, the place to be if you believe in freedom and have a passion for life.
Barbara Branden introduced me to Solo. I had not aligned myself with any publications in many years and was frankly skeptical. Starting this past July, I was drawn immediately into the quality of the debate and the energy and world view of most of the contributors. I submitted a few articles for the Free Radical and subscribed. But when I received my first copy, I was really amazed. Free Radical is the highest quality magazine with the greatest attention to detail that is available anywhere in the "libertarian" world today. I consider it my reward for all the work I have done to understand what really matters in today's debate.

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Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 5:10pmSanction this postReply
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Linz: What an unequalled assortment of riches! If that description doesn't get folk lining up to buy the latest Free Rad, then there's no help for them. Can't wait to receive my copy.

Post 2

Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 6:18pmSanction this postReply
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Hi Everyone,

Just a note regarding the Free Radical Subscription page at https://freeradical.co.nz/secure/subscribe.php. When you click on the link, you will be informed that the browser is unable to verify the identity of freeradical.co.nz as a trusted site. The dialog that will appear will look similar to this (from Internet Explorer 6):

FreeRadical Warning Dialog

You can safely click 'Yes' to accept our certificate; the reason for the dialogue is that our certificate hasn't been signed by a Certificate Authority to prove we are who we say we are. Myself & Lindsay are currently discussing whether this is a worthwhile step.

So, in short, don't worry, we are who we say we are! :-)

Yours,
Duncan Bayne

Post 3

Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 6:21pmSanction this postReply
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"So, in short, don't worry, we are who we say we are! :-)"

Famous last words...


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Post 4

Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 8:06pmSanction this postReply
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Tantalizing pitch for the new issue - you just got yourself a new subscriber!

Post 5

Monday, September 27, 2004 - 3:31amSanction this postReply
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The new Free Radical sounds fascinating! I can't wait to read it -- and to find out the nature of my "cameo appearance."

Barbara

Post 6

Monday, September 27, 2004 - 8:36amSanction this postReply
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Be careful Barbara -- nude photos have an odd way of showing up in this magazine.  ;)


Post 7

Monday, September 27, 2004 - 10:41amSanction this postReply
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Jennifer wrote:
Be careful Barbara -- nude photos have an odd way of showing up in this magazine.
How is this magazine shipped?  Is it in a sealed opaque envelope?  Is it safe to ship to work?


Luke Setzer


Post 8

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 12:35pmSanction this postReply
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What is a neo-Objectivists?


Post 9

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 3:10pmSanction this postReply
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William Egge (Bill),

First, it is good to see your face after so long on the old Objectivism in Florida list!

Chris Sciabarra coined the term "neo-Objectivist" in his excellent book Ayn Rand: The Russian Radical, which you would do well to read.  He distinguishes them from "orthodox Objectivists".  The former think some parts of Ayn Rand's system need improvement and correction, while the latter see it as correct, "closed and complete", to use Leonard Peikoff's words.

The SOLO Founder and Principal, Lindsay Perigo, evidently prefers just to call those who agree with the defining principles of Objectivism "Objectivists" and those who do not "non-Objectivists" -- with the remainder who attempt to make Ayn Rand's personal tastes, preferences and tentative conclusions into a defining part of Objectivism being called "idiots".

For more insight, visit the Importance of Philosophy site to get clear on what exactly distinguishes Objectivism from other systems of thought.


Luke Setzer

(Edited by Luther Setzer on 9/28, 3:12pm)


Post 10

Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 11:08amSanction this postReply
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Ok, then what it a proto-Objectivist?

A pseudo-Objectivist?

A Kantian-Objectivist?

An anarcho-libertarian-subjectivist-Objectivist?

A mystical-whim-worshipping-Objectivist?

Aconcrete-bound-false-dichotomy-holding-reality-ignoring-evader-Objectivst?

Hmmm? What say you ~now~ Mr. Setzer? ;>)

Post 11

Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 1:50pmSanction this postReply
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"What is a proto-Objectivist?"

It's an anti-Objectivist praised to the roof by a pseudo-Objectivist. Tee hee. :-)


Post 12

Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 1:58pmSanction this postReply
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Aristotle.

Post 13

Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 7:32pmSanction this postReply
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I had considered the term "proto-Objectivist" shortly before this term was introduced here...

And I have to say that, in light of the quantum leap in objectivity that Ayn Rand introduced with her philosophy, considering that it has some considerable holes in it -- such as its reactionary attitude towards misunderstood usage of loaded terms and its oftentimes fiery dismissal of all phenomena which do not fit pre-existing, logical understanding, I would say that Rand's philosophy should actually be retroactively looked at, as proto-Objectivism.

Since Rand, (let's create a new calendar system that begins with her death in 1982... thus making this the year A.R. 22), the pursuit of true objectivity has led aspiring Objectivists to revise some of the conclusions of her philosophy, if not the philosophy itself. 

In essence, then, since the pursuit of objectivity is always ongoing, and today's objective understanding may likely be revised tomorrow, I think that we are always "Proto-Objectivists".


Post 14

Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 11:16pmSanction this postReply
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Scott, I will attempt to answer the obviously rhetorical questions which you've directed toward Luke ...
--------------------
Ok, then what i[s] a proto-Objectivist?

Aristotle


A pseudo-Objectivist?

Michael Shermer


A Kantian-Objectivist?

Dr. Fred Seddon (or Michael Shermer)


An anarcho-libertarian-subjectivist-Objectivist?

Robert Nozick (or Michael Shermer)


A mystical-whim-worshipping-Objectivist?

Stephen Hawking (or Steven Pinker)


A [c]oncrete-bound-false-dichotomy-holding-reality-ignoring-evader-Objectiv[i]st?

Albert Ellis (or Michael Shermer)
----------------
Ed

Post 15

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 9:43amSanction this postReply
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Well, the questions were rhetorical and tongue-in-cheek, but the answers are all fascinating!

Post 16

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 5:21amSanction this postReply
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"phenomena which do not fit pre-existing"
Will you name one?

"reactionary attitude towards misunderstood usage of loaded terms"
What is this reactionary attitude?  Its not descriptive.

What is a "loaded term"?

What I am focusing on is the holes you claim these to be in objectivism.  I will be checking the "objectivity" of there relation to reality and your understanding of objectivism metaphysics.


Post 17

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 2:02pmSanction this postReply
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The posts on this thread really demonstrate why a meaning must not be forced upon a word.
(Edited by Scott DeSalvo on 9/30, 2:02pm)


Post 18

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 11:51pmSanction this postReply
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William,

Okay...  Here's a major point of contention that I have with Rand's conception of the universe, as concerns quantum mechanics and the existence of randomness.  On page 17 of Objectivism:  The Philosophy of Ayn Rand, Leonard Peikoff writes:

Even if it were true that owing to a lack of information we could never exactly predict a subatomic event -- and this is highly debatable -- it would not show that, in reality, the event was causeless.
First of all, this conveys an inability to have truly grasped the fundamental essence of quantum physics, and beyond that, goes so far as to naively -- or even arrogantly -- generalize human-scale causality to the quantum scale. 

What Peikoff is basically saying is that he intuitively knows what is really going on, at the quantum level, and that it's just a matter of time before physicists confirm his beliefs.  This, despite no evidence which supports anything but apparent actual randomness of subatomic happenings at any given point in time. 

As spokesman for Objectivism, Peikoff took a firm stance which was unwarranted in terms of objectivity, and thus doing, violated the principle of objectivity.  Therefore, because quantum physics is the foundation for the universe itself, I see no other recourse but to conclude that Objectivism is flawed on an important level, superior as it is to other philosophies. 

For this reason, and because Objectivism aspires to grasp and promote true objectivity, Objectivism at the time of that publication is incomplete, and I consider it to be an important length of a yet-incompleted journey.  That's why I think it should be called "Proto-Objectivism".


Post 19

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 11:55pmSanction this postReply
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William,

And as far as my mentioning of reactivity to "loaded terms" and such, I wrote an earlier essay called here in SOLO called "Controlling Language" which clearly explains my contentions: 

http://www.solohq.com/Articles/Reasoner/Controlling_Language.shtml


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