RoR: Forum

To be part of the "Honors Society" at my high school we had to do something like 40 hours or community service and have a 3.5 or above GPA. I did it for one year, and then never again, and not for GPA reasons.

Post 1

Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 7:41am

I'd like to know exactly what tangible benefits the clubs such as Honors Society, Beta Club, etc. deliver to their members over the long run.

Post 2

Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 10:16am

My son's high school also requires that all students complete 40 hours of community service "learning hours" in order to graduate.

And the school administration is quite specific about what kinds of activities are "acceptable"; on the first day of freshmen orientation, the principal explained, "You cannot, for example, go and intern at your Dad's law firm...we don't want you providing free service or labor at some for-profit company...it has to be volunteer service at a non-profit organization."

I was afraid my son would be forced to help save the whales or the trees in order to graduate. Thankfully, the school decided to accept the volunteer work he does for the local Republican ward organization (which is something he enjoys doing anyway) so he found a way around actually suffering through the school's requirement.

Post 3

Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 11:12am

If he wanted to quit school at age 16 and earn a General Educational Development (GED) diploma would he still have to perform community service?

Chris Rock calls it the "Good Enough Diploma" and I find myself agreeing with him more every day.

Post 4

Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 11:32am

I started working for The Salvation Army during high school and continued after. I never thought of it as community service though. Maybe it's because the lens I viewed it through was religion and not service. I enjoyed what I did but never thought of it as doing something for someone else. God I was bad Christian.

I'm very glad I only spent two years in high school though.

Post 5

Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 11:39am

I find it ironic that all this time and energy a student spends on community service and other extraneous activities could be spent accelerating his graduation so he could work sooner and pay taxes sooner.

Can someone point to a macroeconomic analysis of youth community service and its equivalent revenue or expense long term?

I am not saying a person should be groomed into becoming a tax slave, but showing a net economic loss for all would bolster the view of service as sacrifice.

I do have to wonder about all the (paid) unskilled labor displaced by (unpaid) community service students and whether they rely on unemployment benefits as a result.

Post 6

Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 12:39pm

Has anyone sued for it being involuntary servitude, or a violation of one's [secular] religion or ethical creed?

Post 7

Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 2:34pm

Has the military draft ever been challenged on those grounds?

Post 8

Monday, December 15, 2008 - 2:21pm

The Supreme Court took up the involuntary servitude objection to the draft in 1917. As with legal tender and gun ownership, you can't find an honest way around the text of the constitution, so they didn't. Briefly their answer was that everybody else does it, so we can, too.

Conscientious objector status on religious grounds (typically requiring alternative service) has long been available, though I don't know just how long.

Post 9

Monday, December 15, 2008 - 4:08pm

Luke,

In Arver v. United States, 245 U.S. 366 (1918), the Court decided that conscription was constitutional. Its only argument regarding involuntary servitude went like this:

"Finally, as we are unable to conceive upon what theory the exaction by government from the citizen of the performance of his supreme and noble duty of contributing to the defense of the rights and honor of the nation as the result of a war declared by the great representative body of the people can be said to be the imposition of involuntary servitude in violation of the prohibitions of the Thirteenth Amendment, we are constrained to the conclusion that the contention to that effect is refuted by its mere statement."

How's that for a mealy-mouthed evasion?

Post 10

Monday, December 15, 2008 - 4:17pm

I suppose "community service" would thus be justified by the "promote the general welfare" clause.

Post 11

Monday, December 15, 2008 - 6:17pm