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Thursday, May 26 - 2:10pmSanction this postReply
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That's awful.  When those who want to control others are active, go after the young, apply modern technology, and improve their psychological approach they steal a march on those of us who seek liberty implemented based upon individual rights.



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Friday, May 27 - 9:25amSanction this postReply
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What about gamifying advocacy of liberty?  Clearly it wouldn't be the same kind of thing since the ways to oppress and inhibit are many and aim at reducing choice.  A free nation only needs a significant portion of the population who understand individual rights. 

 

The Chinese gamification of obedience has a tougher goal: changing behavior while maintaining the fundamental deceptiion of their drive to make people into robots. 

 

A game that taught liberty, rewarded creativity, gave points for knowledge acquired, and encouraged freedom lets people make their own changes and would have nothing to hide.  It could marry game points and pride with real world self-esteem increases. 

 

We could certainly use such a game here in the U.S.... look at the sad state of our political knowedge (outside of the rarified air of libertarian/Objectivist circles).
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p.s., the other advantage liberty has is that the more freedom in a country, the more robust its economy and, on average, the better the life of the citizens.  The inverse is true: the less freedom that exists, the more fragile the economy.  

 

And the more fluid the communications technology, the harder it is to maintain a given deception.  Right now, the Chinese people know the government is trying to keep them in the dark, but the problem is that when they find a crack in the bamboo curtain through which to peer, there isn't a clear example of liberty for them to see.



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Friday, May 27 - 4:23pmSanction this postReply
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Scary if it's true, but I have my doubts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a quick skim of the video I saw showed no sourcing for these claims. It sounds more like a wishlist than a working technology.

 

During the Clinton / Reno era the Justice Department announced a protocol-sniffer called Carnivore, what was supposed to give them entree to anybody's internet communications and so forth. It didn't work and was quietly shelved, faster than you can say "ObamaCare website".

 

In any event, anonymous and pseudonymous logins could very easily get around it.



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Friday, May 27 - 5:31pmSanction this postReply
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The advantage that a government has is that it has a lot of things that it can use as rewards and punishments based on their game of subservience.  What would be the reward for a liberty game? =)



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Friday, May 27 - 7:12pmSanction this postReply
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What would be the reward for a liberty game?

 

I don't know.  Getting free of the subservience?  I've never played any games.  But the propoganda game sounds more stick than carrot.  What are the rewards for some of those other games mentioned?

 

If a game mimics life and the context is liberty (versus oppression), then I'd guess that the course of the game would be making choices based upon an understanding of the proper principles that apply to the situation, turning the choices into actions.  The good choices resulting in gaining things that provided more options available at the time of future choices while bad choices result in having things taken away that would have helped in those future choices.  Success is often marked by increased options. 



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Saturday, May 28 - 7:20pmSanction this postReply
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SW: "What about gamifying advocacy of liberty?  Clearly it wouldn't be the same kind of thing..."

 

Minecraft comes to mind. https://minecraft.net/en/  

The homepage is a bit misleading.  It has developed far beyond this.  Apparently, you can do a lot on your own, building things of value and so on.

 

We have gaming stores here in Austin (of course) and I goto Dragon's Lair often enough. I looked into Railroads, Age of Empires, and similar games. None I found it built on expressly Objectivist ideas. Bioshock was touted when it came out, but it also seemed to have a lot of philosophical problems.  There's always Monopoly...

(My Objectivist friends do away with the Income Tax, of course...)



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Post 6

Saturday, May 28 - 8:04pmSanction this postReply
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As I said, I don't have any experience with games. 

 

What I do see is generations of the similar style of advocacy for liberty (with the exception of Rand who created new moral and epistemological foundations).  Collectivism isn't being adequately opposed.  What I see with Progressivism is new approaches, new enthusiasm, new ideas (although bad ones), and effectiveness (it's winning). 

 

What the article lays out for the Chinese, where they are linking gaming, collectivist propoganda, and market-like rewards and punishments is scary.  People, in general, not just the Chinese culture, are far too susceptible to emotional, political movements that take on a religious nature.  Look at the horror wrought by Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Po Pot and Imperial Japan.

 

This propoganda game concept shows a level of sophistication and subtlety that didn't exist in the past and that accords with the increase in technological capabilities compared to the past.  It also aligns well with the trend we see in progressivism where a nudge and misdirection and hidden agendas are given priority over brute force as mechanisms for getting the yoke in place.  Collectivism wants to have a form that is taken like a religion, to be worshiped and accepted on faith.  But it is harder to get from here to there in this age of science and ubiquitous communications - therefore, a more sophisticated and subtle approach might be just what the next generation needs to find themselves subject to the next Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Po Pot, or Imperial Japan.



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