[an error occurred while processing this directive]
About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadPage 0Page 1Page 2Forward one pageLast Page


Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 0

Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 1:08pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Forgive Us Our Trespasses?

I usually understand the point of your posts, Michael, but the only explanation I can imagine for this one is the influence of cannabis. Who is Verneer?

In any case, unless those 207 were holding tickets for outbound trains, they should have been arrested for trespass.



Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 1

Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 1:28pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
The intense details in Verneer are likewise unreal.  Nothing in reality looks like that.  That kind of detail at evey depth is impossible to perceive with natural senses.


Do not confuse detail with clarity....  his is no less real than Canaletto's - a lot depends on location, and some, like in ancient Greece, allowed for much clarity, whereas in England, too much 'atmosphere'.....


not everyone's nearsighted, like some I know......;-)

(Edited by robert malcom on 4/13, 1:30pm)




Post 2

Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 4:48pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I watched that film a while ago and really enjoyed it. I thought it was amusing and clever, and closest thing to spontaneous theater I could imagine.

Mike, the issue is romantic realism, not simply "realism."  Vermeer was a romantic realist. 




Post 3

Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 7:49pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Haha thats cool thanks for the link.



Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 4

Monday, April 14, 2008 - 2:39amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Surely no one here considers this art, do they? A bunch of people with nothing better to do but stand, kneel or crouch is not art. It may be funny. It may be silly. But it is certainly not art.

How Marotta made the leap from this stunt to Vermeer and romanticism is difficult to understand.



Post 5

Monday, April 14, 2008 - 4:04amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Steve,

I don't think Michael was trying to make any leaps, just trying to understand.




Post 6

Monday, April 14, 2008 - 5:51pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Where was this portrayed as "art"? Maybe I missed something or maybe some other source called it "art." Even if they did, so what? It doesn't offend the values of anyone like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6vP8CgTonQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-jIP8i1djg&NR=1

http://www.snopes.com:80/critters/crusader/vargas.asp

This is a prank on a "grand" scale.  Over 200 people gathered at Grand Central Station in New York to pull off a 'frozen in place' act.  The onlooking travelers who weren't part of the act were mystified as to what was going on.

 

This is harmless fun. Lighten up, people.

 

Sam




Post 7

Monday, April 14, 2008 - 6:11pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
They've done this in at least one other city, London, I think.   And it is fun.



Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 8

Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 8:52amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
A frieze would be art. This is no more than a prank.




Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 9

Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 6:21pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I think the point may have been to make people think that time had frozen. We've all seen the surreal moments in movies where one character gapes in disbelief at all the people who've frozen....yeah.

I participated in the No Pants Subway ride in January 2007, perpetrated by the same group. Hundreds of people. in their skivvies. on the subway. pretending they'd just forgotten their pants, or just got hot, &c. It was FUN.



Post 10

Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 6:31pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I don't believe you... pictures are in demand on this one.   XcD



Sanction: 13, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 13, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 13, No Sanction: 0
Post 11

Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 8:59pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Praising Parasitism

The comparison with art (Sam, post 6) was at least implicit in the fact that Michael posted it on the art forum, compared it to Vermeer, and used the word art himself several times. This could have been posted in Banter.

As a prank? Being a user of Grand Central, I'd have found it an annoyance. Places such as that are meant for transit, not stasis. Consider Paterson's analysis of public rights of way where people can use them in common because they do not stand still. The supposed value of this prank is parasitic upon the productivity of those who built the rail station and the annoyance of those who pay to use it. No productive people to annoy, no prank. This remains a petty crime, just as sometimes pretty grafitti remain criminal defacements.

For a real prank, consider physicist Alan Sokol's Fashionable Nonsense and his submission of a paper "Social Text" entirely in doublspeak to a fashionable postmodern journal. Consider Ross Perot's presidential candidacies.





Post 12

Friday, April 18, 2008 - 12:39amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

TSI: Click here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXB_DcuMv_E

Or see this here:
Good Times.




Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Post 13

Friday, April 18, 2008 - 7:49amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
If pranks can be art, then this is a masterpiece:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8CCYegbg_I




Post 14

Friday, April 18, 2008 - 8:33amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Is a vase art?  Why? Why not?

What is "art" about a painting of fruit?

Why did painting continue after the invention of the camera?

What is Michelangelo's David versus Boticelli's David?  Did David "really" look like either of them?  Did he wear nothing at all when killing Goliath?  Or did he have a silly hat with flowers in it?

Please, do not quote Ayn Rand.  I read it all, too.  It was fine as far as it went... but it did not go far enough.  Performance art -- so-called "pranks" -- are a valid form for our time, just as the artful production of a vase or an arrowhead or a train engine is for ours.  Have you never seen the works of Raymond Loewy?   

If a vase can be art, then, are video games not an art form?  (Just for instance...)




Post 15

Friday, April 18, 2008 - 9:21amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Michael, you're being e-vase-ive.

--This work created by Rodney Rawlings

:-)




Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 16

Friday, April 18, 2008 - 1:07pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Grand Central Station represents purposeful motion (as noted by Ted Keer and Rodney Rawlings).  Yet, in our action, we see other people only as snapshots, blurs, brief cameos, walk-ons, as they purposely pass us in turn.  What if that moment were frozen, to be held for full examination? 

Have you never wanted to stop time to hold a moment in your perception?

Here, these people were not standing rigidly at attention or lying down or sitting.  Each was stopped in mid-motion.  (It was practiced.  They worked at this to pull it off.  It was not random, but only appeared so, through its artistry.)  In mid-stride, mid-sentence, mid-reach or mid-touch, each was held in clear display. Not just one person -- though that would have been fine -- but many enough to communicate to many more that something unusual had happened and was happening.*  Indeed, "was" and "is" are now open for discussion. 

And what do people "do" each moving moment?  Each frozen figure was engaged in something purposeful. None was irrationally capering or mindlessly lolling about.  We move -- especially through Grand Central Station -- with motive and motivation.  Here was snapshot of that.

... and yes, the ones most disturbed or interrrupted were the public employees whose lives consist of routine, for whom the purpose of others is, after all, only a blur...  Those who metaphysically need the expected are most easily upset.  Think about how the Three Stooges react to a surprise.  At the other end, was the hiphop tune about "Things that make you say 'Hmmm'"  People who are cool take in what is new and think about it.

*(In The Matrix, it was said that your feeling of "deja vu" is the Matrix reloading a changed moment.) 




Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Post 17

Friday, April 18, 2008 - 4:35pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Indeed, "was" and "is" are now open for discussion. MEM

Perhaps within the context of linguistic analysis or Sartre's obscure writings. Maybe you should just drop acid, Michael. It will certainly seem profound. The Matrix was a centuries-old cliche. What if it's all a dream? Bah! I'll take the little yellow pill...

There are no public employees at GCS, except perhaps the police and occasionally the military. The station workers have "seen it all." (I have heard them say as much watching drunken revelers on St. Patty's Day.) Your remark about needing routine reeks of elitist condescension. Busy people like myself passing thru would know at once that this was a stunt. I would react at most with a loud "you are in my way!"

Is a vase fine art? In so far as it is not used only to hold flowers. In so far as its shape and color express beauty. There is no beauty expressed in this stunt.






Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Post 18

Friday, April 18, 2008 - 5:03pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
While not wishing to engage in a debate as to whether the act in Grand Central Station was "Art" or not, it seems to me that this discussion boils down to issues of delight and contemplation. Some people argue that the act was meaningless - more bother than entertainment - and offers nothing worthy of contemplation. Others seem to find it provocative and apparently were impacted in a way that caused them to look in a fresh way at the world around them. As an observer, I find that peoples' responses to this act are what is interesting as they reveal tremendous insights into their inner selves, while the act itself really has very little to communicate, either emotionally or intellectually. Maybe it would be better to classify this as more a psychology experiment than a work of art?

Regards,
--
Jeff




Post 19

Friday, April 18, 2008 - 5:09pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Mike Yarbrough wrote:

> I participated in the No Pants Subway ride in January 2007, perpetrated by the same group.
> Hundreds of people. in their skivvies. on the subway. pretending they'd just forgotten
> their pants, or just got hot, &c. It was FUN.

and Teresa responded:

> I don't believe you... pictures are in demand on this one.

Teresa:

Does this mean girls are also dogs, just like us guys? :-)

Regards,
--
Jeff



Post to this threadPage 0Page 1Page 2Forward one pageLast Page
[an error occurred while processing this directive] [an error occurred while processing this directive]