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Post 20

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 12:17amSanction this postReply
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Love Dead Poet's Society. Characters making life-altering choices all over the place. Robin Williams' character speaks to Quality and the parent's and admins speak to Practicality. It's an eternal question. There is a knock-off of Dead Poet's called The Emperor's Club that I really like. Kevin Kline stars in it.

Alec, I bet you like Elvis better than The Beatles too. :-)

<Join us, Alec> And in the end <join us!> the love you take <join us> is equal to the love you make.


Post 21

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 12:32amSanction this postReply
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Actually, I like Tom Jones over both.

Post 22

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 12:47amSanction this postReply
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Alec, you and I have to go paint the town red in Vegas some weekend.

Post 23

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 1:01amSanction this postReply
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Deal. But we have to plan ahead. I've seen Tom Jones live in L.A., but he has a knack for eluding me in Vegas -- when I went a few months ago, his gig ended just the night before I arrived. This is in keeping with long pattern.

Just for the record, I will take The Beatles over Elvis (when they're not singing cheesefood elevator-filler like "can't buy me love"), but I'll also take a great many bands over the Beatles, especially The Eagles, Cream, and the Original Fleetwood Mac. That is, the pre-cheesefood-nicks, Peter Green Fleetwood Mac.



Post 24

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 1:43amSanction this postReply
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I suspect there is something in the way of a 'generation gap' here - or perhaps a cultural/economic gap.  The kinds of 15 year olds in the movie are not the same as in present public schooling, in general at least - but moreso in schools of the past, my generation or so [I graduated in 63].  I wonder, Alex, how you view those in "The Winslow Boy", based on Terrence Rattigan's play, which is yet again of another generation.

Post 25

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 2:02amSanction this postReply
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Never seen the Winslow boy. Was it a fact that the setting of the Deap Poets lay in your generation? Because the way it was shot did not make it seem so -- they seemed very much a part of my generation.

Post 26

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 2:07amSanction this postReply
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That is true, but those who go to those kinds of schools are generally not raised as those who go to public schools - that is, there is more of a directiveness and seriousness about life, largely due to the kind of outlooks they are raised to see within their households [am speaking here in general - obviously there are many exceptions here].

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Post 27

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 6:25amSanction this postReply
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The generation gap is real.  When I look at pictures of people from the 1950s or 1850s, I cannot reconcile them to their chronological ages.  They all look much older than their years from our point of view. 

On the other hand, when I was a kid about 1958 or so, this Olympic athlete came on and said that youth today are loud and rude and disrespectful and probably the end of civilization -- and then said that he was quoting Plato.  So, kids are kids and always will be. 

Art depends on abstraction.   John Keating's "class" must be only the few boys out of several classes who "get" the message. I went to a small college for my first two years.  The College of Charleston was founded in 1770 and had 425 students in 1967.  It was very "Oxbridge."  You had the up-county folk from the piedmont and you had the poets and you had the jocks and freshmen and frats and sororities and whatever, but all of the social circles had to intersect.

These are not all the boys, just the Dead Poets Society.


Post 28

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 7:23pmSanction this postReply
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Fine, I'll grant the generation gap. There's another thing about this article, though -- and I do hate to sound cranky. But if I see one more simile likening something to "a good woman" or to "making love", I'm gonna castrate somebody. Seriously now. Using women or sex as a metaphor is like a bad fuck: predictable, easy, and mindless.

Alec

(Edited by Alec Mouhibian
on 8/03, 4:34am)


Post 29

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 7:32pmSanction this postReply
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If you can find a bunch of 15 year olds who'd sneak out in the middle of the night to read poetry in a sewer, then you've got much better sight than I do.
Well we didn't exactly go into sewers but in HS we were regularly spending nights in an old shed discussing music, nietzche, voltaire, world leaders, different varieties of mysticism and where everyone who came up with those ideas went totally off their rocker that sums up my high school experience in a nutshell.

---LAndon


Post 30

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 8:50pmSanction this postReply
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Landon, hippie reefer circles don't count.

Post 31

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 8:58pmSanction this postReply
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Who was smoking anything?  I've been a teatotaller most of my life and when and if any of the people I discussed these things with did drugs it wasn't around me. The main guy I was discussing things with was quick to correct you if you called him a hippy, with either "beatnik" or "Nihilist."

And Nietzche is about as far from hippy as you can get.

I wouldn't stand by the conclusions of most of those discussions but they were what set the foundation for my ideological development over the rest of my life.

---Landon


Post 32

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 9:04pmSanction this postReply
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Landon, I was *kidding.* Your description just sounded an awful lot like a reefer circle, that's all.

Post 33

Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 9:09pmSanction this postReply
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Figured as much... I just get stereotyped as a musician sometimes.

It's always funny how disappointed people become when they find out I was in all kinds of bands for like 7 years and yet durring that time I did no drugs and had the sex life of a monk (the latter part being unintentional).

---Landon


Post 34

Wednesday, August 3, 2005 - 4:05amSanction this postReply
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What made Dead Poet Society commendable to Objectivists?  We might say that Robert White is a mere student of Objectivism, so this movie is not truly good enough for us. 

But I do not think that is accurate or fair.  The consistent good to great endorsements all over the WWW as well as here show that the movie certainly resonated with the highest ideals of many people.  I recommended the movie Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow and I actually expected to take a few hits on that, but got a few points instead.  The movie had some internal problems.  (I think it failed to establish its universe.)  Still, it was gripping -- and other thinkers here agreed.

If I can speak of "deconstructionism" and "gestalt" without being accused of post-modernism, I believe that on the one hand, we must look at the elements to understand the entity, but that ultimately, every "thing" is what it is on its own terms: Das Ding an sich. How you evaluate a person, a book, a movie, an animal, a plant, or rock either at your feet or in outer space, depends on your morality.  Personally, I think that most of Ayn Rand's favorite "bootleg" was swill.  However, there is no denying what it meant to her.  She wrote cogently and unarguably about the value in what she enjoyed and why.

If Dead Poet Society does not move you, then it does not.  Condemning the characterizations for being unworkable is fine. If the kids seemed unreal to you, then that is where it ends for you. If you were to say that you liked the work generally because it showed the true futility of life but that the "My Captain!" at the end ruined it, well, that says something about who you are.  If -- like most people -- you liked it because it reflected your own passion for "sucking the marrow without choking on the bone" then that says something else. 

But there is "none of the above." 

Art is like that.

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 8/03, 4:08am)


Post 35

Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 10:10amSanction this postReply
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Tom Jones rules. Tom Jones completely understands the entertainment and music business. :)

I think my boss' brother-in-law is his manager, or tour manager... I just found that out!


Post 36

Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 10:16amSanction this postReply
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Peter,

Regarding Emerson: What I like about Emerson (and the movement in general) is that they are very invigorating, yes... Reading them helps me not forget my sense of awe, and awe is one place from where grace comes. I remember to look around outside when I first go out in the morning, if you know what I mean. It's not as easy for me to "run out" of  things to enjoy about life when I'm in the thick of it.


Post 37

Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 11:22amSanction this postReply
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Based on this, we rented the movie again.  It was OK.  It did have all the problems cited here by others.  The boys did have a range of "sizes" but not of ages.  They were really all from the same class, perhaps from his seniors or juniors.  Also, not all of the boys were sold.  Some just did not get it.  Others betrayed it.  For all of that it was still all right. 


Post 38

Sunday, September 4, 2011 - 3:23pmSanction this postReply
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A good one here - watched this movie [finally got a DVD so could enjoy the closed captions]the other night, after an absence of many years - still VERY enjoyable to me... and can add that the suicide was not as contrived as many might presume - I had a father much like that, and was terrified of him, and could only say was glad came across Rand early in life to fortify me thru those years, else yes, suicide would had seemed a valid choice..........

Post 39

Thursday, July 31, 2014 - 3:45amSanction this postReply
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Malcom and I are still here.  How does the present roster of writers evaluate this movie?  In retrospect, and therefore at a distance, I still agree with Robert White's assessment. 



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