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Post 0

Monday, November 27, 2006 - 12:29pmSanction this postReply
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I saw the movie. I didn't know what to think of it.




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Post 1

Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 1:14amSanction this postReply
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I thought the movie was horrible, I couldn't believe it received such high praised reviews. In the movie, Brandon/Teena was a compulsive thief & liar, and chose horrible friends and led a lifestyle that was clearly a downward spiral.

Here's the plot of the movie: white trash do trashy things: bar fights, four wheelers, beer, sleeping together, speeding, slapping girls around, getting drunk, raping, shooting a girl, and some jail/cop scenes.

I don't know anything about the real life story except from the video.



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Post 2

Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 6:30amSanction this postReply
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I didn't think the movie itself was horrible; the actors were convincing, it was well-written, etc...but it was brutal, disturbing, and sad...and therefore hard to watch. And if you are watching anything that fits that description, it hard to think of it as "entertainment". Of course, the filmmakers weren't really going for entertainment; they wanted to depict the true life story of this person in order to shine a light on the ugliness of homophobia, bigotry, and so on. But I have to say that I had the exact same thoughts as Dean when actually witnessing Brandon Teena's life choices...she hung out with the scummiest people on earth. She certainly didn't deserve what happened to her, but there was simply no way in hell this story could have turned out any other way. I felt sorry for Teena, certainly---but not mainly because she was misunderstood and ultimately victimized by lowlifes, but because her sense of life was so confused and distorted that she chose to associate with these lowlifes in the first place.



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Post 3

Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 5:32pmSanction this postReply
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While you may not get what you deserve, you may just deserve what you get.

Given the film's subject matter and my love Gerald Edward Wells' murder in a carjacking at 25, I would not watch the film. But I question why the filmmakers would chose her as a subject, as opposed to such a man as Pim Fortuyn, openly gay politician and perhaps one of the last great Dutch patriots, or Theo Van Gogh, the murdered Dutch film maker who dared to insult the cutthroats.

Rather, we get movies about the serial-killer Aileen Wuornos. Wuornos, and those who chose to portray her on film were indeed "Monster"s. And the leftist "gay" "community" screams for "protection" from Bush, while John Walker Lindh has homosexual adventures in between his Al Qaida "vision-quest/war crimes" and gets to serve as someone's prison wife (presumably a m*slim) while serving time at public expense close to his mummy on the West Coast.

As for gay bashing, the only proper response is self defense, preferably lethal. Go Ru-Paul on their asses, girl. Read Camille Paglia, the Bull Dyke "Ayn Rand" if you really want to know what to think. Her favorite fantasy types are the pre-meltdown Tyrell Owens and the divine Drew Barrymore. Her "Sexual Personae" is the best book I've read on art second to the Romantic Manifesto. Camille's a man after my own heart.

Oh my, I do think I've exceeded my anti-PC limit for the day.

Ted Keer, 28 November, 2006, NYC



Post 4

Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 6:55pmSanction this postReply
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Chris Baker has kindly corrected me, it's Terrell Owens I meant in #3, not Tyrell. I blame a combination of diet pills and sleep aids. And to think I actually looked up Aileen Wuornos! :)

Ted

The image is from www.notablebiographies.com



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Post 5

Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 6:39amSanction this postReply
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 But I question why the filmmakers would chose her as a subject, as opposed to such a man as Pim Fortuyn, openly gay politician and perhaps one of the last great Dutch patriots, or Theo Van Gogh, the murdered Dutch film maker who dared to insult the cutthroats.

I couldn't agree more, Ted!! (Most Americans have probably never heard of these two men; thanks to a (now-expired)  :- (    Economist subscription, I have, and I was greatly impressed with what they were trying to accomplish with their lives.)
I would much rather have seen their biographies brought to life on screen.

Erica




Post 6

Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 10:34amSanction this postReply
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Ted, whose erudition is becoming legendary (is there anything he hasn't read?), writes,
l. Read Camille Paglia, the Bull Dyke "Ayn Rand" if you really want to know what to think.
Ahem! Camille Paglia?? I don't think so! Given the admittedly little I've read of her, she strikes me as bona fide nutcase. She is so far from Ayn Rand intellectually (and spiritually), there is simply no comparison.

- Bill



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Post 7

Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 12:20pmSanction this postReply
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Obviously you've not read her then....



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Post 8

Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 12:38pmSanction this postReply
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I do remember reading Paglia discussing Rand; I can't give you an exact quote or source (sorry), but she did say something to the effect that she could relate to her, that she reminded her of herself. I'm no Camille Paglia expert, but that nugget always stuck in my mind about her. Unless she completely, and totally, misinterpreted everything she ever read by Rand, I've always been willing to give her the benefit of the doubt...at least until I get to know her writings a little better...especially considering the visceral, vehement opposition Rand (always, and automatically) inspires in people I've come to pretty much despise.

Erica

(Just added) Found the link to the interview where Paglia discusses Rand, among other topics:

Interview with the Vamp

Why Camille Paglia hates affirmative action, defends Rush Limbaugh, and respects Ayn Rand
http://www.reason.com/news/show/29737.html

(Edited to include link.)

(Edited by Erica Schulz on 11/30, 12:57pm)




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Post 9

Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 1:19pmSanction this postReply
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Paglia was unaware of Rand until people began asking her about their similarities at book signings. Paglia is an irreligious Catholic demonstrative Italian Reagan-Democrat with a very perceptive wit and no tolerance for B.S. She is very similar to Christopher Hitchens in style. She says that she does not fully agree with but does indeed "get" Rand. She is an atheist with a religious sensibility. Paglia is on the ball about 95% of the time, and always worth the read. Her Sexual Personae is, I repeat, the best work on art criticism I have yet read, except for RR, and the two books are very different and complimentary in approach. Paglia is much more widely grounded in modern culture, anthropology, pop-culture and many other things than Rand, and she doesn't discount things out of hand. She is very well respected academically, except by those whose bubbles she pricks, such as post-modernists, prudes, and self-identified victim classes. One of her essay collections has a cartoon in the back which was drawn by a friend and is set in a bar we used to go to Friday nights to discuss her, and other things such as Basic Instinct, and Martin Lawrence, who was just on the scene at the time. The writer and cartoonist C. Bard Cole first lent me Sexual Personae, and I was hooked.

If one reads some of her short off-the cuff remarks, she may seem bizarre, but that would have applied to Rand as well in just about anyone's eyes. I must say that I did not find Paglia's recent Break, Burn, Blow on poetry to be her best work.

She has been disowned by the Left for pooh-poohing the institutional sexism/racism/homphobia crowd. I love her.

Ted Keer, 30 November, 2006, NYC

P.S. The screen-shot is from a three hour interview on CSPAN2. I suggest anyone with a DVR enter her name as a keyword search item.
(Edited by Ted Keer
on 11/30, 4:36pm)




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Post 10

Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 3:16pmSanction this postReply
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 Paglia is an irreligious Catholic Reagan Democrat with a very perceptive wit and no tolerance for B.S.  She is very similar to Christopher Hitchens in style.  She says that she does not fully agree with but does indeed "get" Rand.  She is an atheist with a religious sensibility.  Paglia is on the ball about 95% of the time, and always worth the read.
She has been disowned by the left for pooh-poohing the institutional sexism/racism/homphobia crowd.  
OK, see that's why I generally give her the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks, Ted.

Erica




Post 11

Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 8:51pmSanction this postReply
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Bill,

I have a rare condition that prevents me to fall asleep except when reading. Having reread the fiction writers I like so many times, I've been forced to move on to theory and fact.

Erica,

You could agree more, by sanctioning me for that post above...

I used to buy the Economist occasionally. Then I read them absolutely trash Oriana Fallaci, and as with the NY Times (which I gave up daily once "Punch" started requiring one pro-gay article in every section) I have not picked up a copy since. I guess I should at least be happy that they let me know her last work was about to have been released.

Ted



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Post 12

Friday, December 1, 2006 - 5:19amSanction this postReply
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You could agree more, by sanctioning me for that post above...


Sorry, Ted! (I forget to do that sometimes when I mean to.)

It's been taken care of.

Hey...I just noticed...your pic is new, Ted! Are we finally seeing you, (or another of your favorite relatives?   : -)

(Edited by Erica Schulz on 12/01, 5:24am)




Post 13

Friday, December 1, 2006 - 6:06amSanction this postReply
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The pic is my great-uncle Einar Joachim Kjaer Jr., who was killed in the second battle of the Marne in WWI. I have a pic of myself, but it is 15 years out of date. I am better looking than Einar, but not as cute as my nephew! Will post me eventually, still no scanner.

Ted
(Edited by Ted Keer on 12/01, 9:42am)

(Edited by Ted Keer
on 12/01, 6:12pm)




Post 14

Friday, December 1, 2006 - 7:27amSanction this postReply
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Wendy McElroy is a big fan of Camille Paglia. I think Camille is cool.




Post 15

Friday, December 1, 2006 - 9:43amSanction this postReply
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Who is Wendy, what has she done that can be recommeded?  Any images or links?

Ted

BTW, Einar (Means "First Son") could easily pass for my brother, but I have smaller ears.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 12/01, 9:46am)




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Post 16

Friday, December 1, 2006 - 10:48amSanction this postReply
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WendyMcElroy.com
A site for individualist feminism and individualist anarchism
 
 
(I used to read her ifeminist.com stuff a while back...haven't in a while.)
 
Erica
 




Post 17

Friday, December 1, 2006 - 5:42pmSanction this postReply
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Hey!  I just recently picked up her book Sexual Correctness!  It's quite interesting, so far.  I'm probably going to lend it to a feminist friend of mine.

[edit]  Here's the first paragraph from the introduction:

"The feminism of the 1960's produced a sexual revolution, and an explosion of choices for women resulted.  The feminism of the 1990's has created an orthodoxy, which presents women as victims of patriarchy who must be protected from making wrong choices.  Feminism has gone from sexual liberation to sexual correctness, from the politics of equality to the politics of revenge.  This chapter gives a critical overview of this ideological shift and lays the groundwork for an issue by issue examination of how sexual correctness is destroying the freedom of women to choose."

(Edited by Ben Hoffman on 12/01, 5:56pm)




Post 18

Tuesday, September 25 - 12:22pmSanction this postReply
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Personally, I thought the film was fantastic, keeping in mind that the events that occurred were real. If they were not, it would've changed the entire context of the movie. Hilary swank played her part very well.
However, I don't see the relation to objectivism. Given Ayn Rand's views those who were anything but heterosexual and cisgendered, I very much doubt that adopting her philosophies would've helped Brandon.




Post 19

Tuesday, September 25 - 6:24pmSanction this postReply
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Sarah, on this, as on many other specific points, Ayn Rand has been left behind.  Important as she was to the creation of Objectivism, it is an easy claim that Objectivism is more (different) than the sum total of her works to 1981. 

Moreover, whether or not this is a "true story" - as transduced for the screen - it stands alone as a work of art.  Its value as such is all that matters in this context.

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 9/25, 6:25pm)




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