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Post 20

Monday, August 16, 2004 - 11:20pmSanction this postReply
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Jeremy, your wit is uplifting. You have quite a talent. Thank Galt there are people like you to remind us that we don't need permission to laugh or smile.

Mr. Stolyarov, I couldn't agree less with your post. Happy people smile and laugh for the smallest possible reason. It comes from within, and maybe it is a result of a superb integration of premises and a spontaneous sensation derived from ones deeper consciously-held convictions. I say "maybe", because I really don't know.

I just know that I smile and laugh on many occasions for reasons as inane as the pleasure of being caught on camera.

I find your sweeping generalisations, such as

"Most people, however, do not laugh genuinely."

absolutely ridiculous.

In fact, I'm going to up the ante and say that it scares the hell out of me that someone on this site goes to such effort to look for reasons for people NOT to laugh or smile. LIFE is about the quest for happiness, and laughing and smiling are two of the most apparent indicators in our success in achieving happiness in our lives.

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Post 21

Monday, August 16, 2004 - 11:20pmSanction this postReply
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Dear "Mr" Stolyarov has I think just demonstrated Lindsay's whole point, if he did but know it.

There is a distinction between laughing and sneering. It's a distinction Lindsay knows better than most. That's why he doesn't treat the two as equivalent. Let's not think the snicker is the only form of laughter and thus give laughter away to the enemies of romance.

Fantastic article, Lindsay. Encore!


Post 22

Monday, August 16, 2004 - 11:23pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you, Jeremy. Your post cracked *me* up. (Don't tell the Laughter Police!)

:-)

Ooops, I mean:

:-(

Linz

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Post 23

Monday, August 16, 2004 - 11:30pmSanction this postReply
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After sending my post No. 20, on a hunch, I clicked on the "People" page http://www.solohq.com/People/ of solohq.

AND YES!!!

Just look at those photos, and you can just "feel" people's sense of life. I particularly like the photos of Cameron Pritchard, Michael Newberry, Fred Seddon, Christy Little, Kay Dover (to pick just a few). They SHINE with personality, happiness, warmth. Those are people who I know by just seeing their photos that I could laugh with or enjoy a drink with.

Give me their unrestrained happiness ANY DAY!

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Post 24

Monday, August 16, 2004 - 11:58pmSanction this postReply
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You're not wrong, David. The exchanges on this thread have made me realise more clearly than when I wrote my article just two days ago how *urgent* is the quest to rescue Objectivism from the anal-retentives. Thanks to everyone who's posted on the side of the laughter-angels. :-)

Linz

P.S. "Howard Roark laughed." [Without permission.]

Well, damn him to hell!

Post 25

Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 12:09amSanction this postReply
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Cameron wrote:

"There is a distinction between laughing and sneering. It's a distinction Lindsay knows better than most. That's why he doesn't treat the two as equivalent. Let's not think the snicker is the only form of laughter and thus give laughter away to the enemies of romance."

*So* right, Cam!! A brilliant thought, beautifully distilled. Bravo!



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Post 26

Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 1:39amSanction this postReply
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George, your explanation of why Objectivists tend not to laugh is wonderful. (Which means,I suppose, that I had thought of much of it.) I totally agree that there should be an "Objectivism lite;" the idea that everyone who responds to and wants to understand THE FOUNTAINHEAD and ATLAS SHRUGGED must become an instant philosopher is preposterous.People should be encouraged to understand on whatever level they can. But I must say that I think the TOC people are less likely to make the mistake of demanding philosophical professionalism of every newcomer to Objectivism; that the ARI people insist on it is obvious.

Years ago, I spoke with some devotees of EST, and I soon became aware that they were using EST concepts like a club on the non-initiated; it seemed they felt that by denouncing others for their failure to fully understand the glories of EST, they elevated themselves. This too is a fault of many Objectivists, and is partly why they are so quick to find flaws in others. Their psychology (yes,I'm psychologizing) is: If he's evil, then see how good I must be to discover it! And so they must find evil around every corner.


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Post 27

Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 2:01amSanction this postReply
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Mr.Stolyarov, did you ever read about Norman Cousin's recovery from a near fatal disease? He was terribly ill, and in the hospital, where his doctors gravely informed him that his chances of recovery were very slight; it was apparent, from their manner, that they thought he in fact had no chance at all.

Cousins then decided that he would try to enjoy whatever time he had left, rather than remaining in a cold and antiseptic hospital room and eating food that along could make one ill. He had his wife and friends move him to a luxurious hotel room, where, among other advantages, he was free to take the very large quantities of Vitamin C that he believed would help him but that his doctors had frowned on. He also rented a television set and VCR, and a number of movies that had once made him laugh uproariously. Soon, loud guffaws issued from his sick-bed, and his thoughts were removed from his illness.

Norman Cousins made a full recovery, from an illness that almost no one recovered from. And he soon was teaching at the UCLA Medical School (he was not a medical doctor) about the importance of laughter in recovery from illness.

So you see, perhaps one does not have to be an Ellsworth Toohey to recommend the good medicine of frequent laughter. After all, life is a value, is it not?

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Post 28

Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 4:43amSanction this postReply
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"I am not against an occasional earnest laugh"

You don't laugh much, except for the occasional earnest one.
You don't have sex.
You don't drink.

Not that these things are the be all and end all of existance. One can certainly live without them all. My opinon is that its not much of a life though. I look forward to a future article from you on the virtue of being a shut in.


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Post 29

Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 7:34amSanction this postReply
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Ms. Branden,

you wrote: "Norman Cousins made a full recovery, from an illness that almost no one recovered from. And he soon was teaching at the UCLA Medical School (he was not a medical doctor) about the importance of laughter in recovery from illness."

With all due respects Ms. Branden, scientifically, is this any more than anecdotal evidence?

Also, would you laugh when you hear a Polish (or any ethnic) 'joke?' Why?

coaltontrail


Post 30

Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 12:38pmSanction this postReply
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Mr. Bisno,

I admire people who understand that life is not a joke, that to be fully enjoyed, it must be taken seriously. If people would spend less time being entertained by TV and spend more time reading books, there is not telling how much more serious their lives would be.

A famous person once said, "outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."  --Groucho Marx

Why do you say funny things like, "let us note that there is no such thing as a non-condemnatory joke," if you don't want people to laugh?

Oh. About life and jokes, John Candy said, "I hope life's not a joke, because if it is, I don't get it."

Regi


Post 31

Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 1:17pmSanction this postReply
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Regi,

I'm not claiming to be without humor-- there are plenty of things which I see as inept, pitiful, stupid, worthless, and thus, sensible subjects of being mocked. but let's face it: this is what we're saying about something when we laugh at it: that it's pitiful and stupid.


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Post 32

Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 2:33pmSanction this postReply
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Ouch, ouch, ouch...I come home, after a vacation in which I didn't get to this post until today, I read with an upset stomach, and I'm cracking up at the posts!  Hurting never felt so good.

I never thought that people could literally be happy as their "background" emotion all the time until I met my (eventual) wife.  I was so sure, for a long time, that she just pretended to be happy.  Then I told myself that she was just always happy to see me.  Then I lived with her, and she simply radiates joy like nothing I've ever seen.  Even when she gets upset for any reason, the happiness can soon find a way to shine through.  In terms of unkillable benevolence and love for living (as well as her common laughter), she is a fountainhead herself. 

After I converted to Objectivism (thanks to the wonderous influence of SOLO), I found out what it's like to live that way, and never laughed louder or enjoyed life more.  I haven't Objectivism too much out of SOLO, but it's so difficult to imagine being an Objectivist and not feeling an overwhelming confidence and joy that makes you want to jump, sing, and dance (even on an upset stomach), and above all always find yourself brought to a smile, a laugh, and a cry out of just how incredible life can be even when you know that the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

Ayn Rand really knew what she was saying that a person who fights for the future already lives in it.


Post 33

Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 3:43pmSanction this postReply
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I tend to laugh and smile a lot. That’s my normal state. Despite the irrationality and evil in the world, I’ve made my life a safe haven from that. I’m aware of the irrationality and evil , but pay it no more mind than necessary. My life is joyful. It’s very easy for me to call something to mind that will make me smile or laugh.

 

For example, I have an otherwise serious, studious friend who hisses like a cat when she’s a little mad. (It's also her way of diffusing her anger.) This makes me laugh. I’m not mocking her “breakdown in reason,” it’s the contrast of someone who is normally quite straight making animal noises. But my mind doesn’t think, “Ah. Observe the unusual contrast between this person’s regular behavior and this sudden outburst. This is amusing. Ahahaha.” It’s just funny.

 

Then there’s my dog, who races around in excited in figure eights when I get home. This always cracks me up. I’m not thinking, “I mock your non-productive activity, dog! Ha. Ha. Ha.” It’s just endearing.

 
You can find a million reasons to laugh or smile every day. Your natural state need not be “emotionally neutral.” This piece by Lindsay is pretty much as definitive of SOLO as you’re likely to get. This is what “sense of life” means. I’m not sure what value those of you opposed to it would get from SOLO as opposed to other Objectivist organizations. (Except maybe advertising space.)


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Post 34

Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 3:56pmSanction this postReply
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Robert,

I'm not claiming to be without humor--

You don't need to, it's pretty obvious. I'm serious, and I don't mean it as an insult. The one thing the belly laughers do not understand is that some people are "humor deaf," just as other people are "tone deaf."

I know a young man who just never laughs at anything, even though he understands the irony or exaggeration or absurdity of a humorous situation or story. He is an Objectivist thoroughly enjoying his life. He just does not have a sense of humor. Things just do not, "tickle," him they way they do others. To criticize someone for not laughing, when that particular capacity is missing, is pointless; it would be like criticizing someone for not liking music who is tone deaf.

By the way, most humor is not ridicule or mocking, it is a sense of irony or contradiction, usually exaggerated, that instantly makes one aware of the impotency of evil. Since you do not feel it (which anyone who thinks humor is only ridicule or mocking must not) it is not something you can notice. I'm not psychologizing, and admit I might be wrong about you, but certainly you know a tone-deaf person is not going to understand why others become so ecstatic over great music; just so, a humor-deaf person is not gong to understand why belly laughers suffer acute paroxysms of laughter. 

Regi


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Post 35

Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 8:06pmSanction this postReply
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Goodness, what a revealing thread! While the prune-faced responses of Messrs Bisno & Stolyarov don't surprise me, I'm heartened to learn that there are so many exuberant, pro-laughter SOLOists among us. 

And to David Bertelsen: Yes, a Stolyarovian world in which humour is to be treated with suspicion scares the hell out of me, too!

Great article, Linz, & very timely.


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Post 36

Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 12:43amSanction this postReply
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Anyone who thinks modern society has an overdeveloped sense of humor should try cracking a joke about racism or sexism on a college campus.

Post 37

Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 4:38amSanction this postReply
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Lindsay is mostly right-on in his analysis of this actually fairly important topic. And this is just the sort of article and subject you can't find at ARI or TOC, so it's wonderful to see.
 
Nietzsche once said "Who can laugh, and be uplifted?" And some of history's best reasonist thinkers, such as Epicurus and Diderot, were sometimes known as "the laughing philosopher." They also say (as mentioned above) "laughter is the best medicine."
 
Still, it's important not to get too slap-happy or silly and giddy here. It is possible to overdo all this laughter stuff. (The only exceptions are when watching 'The Simpsons,' 'South Park' and 'Da Ali G Show.' Otherwise, folks: Wipe that stupid smirk off your face this instant! ;-))
 
I think it's worth noting here that no-one should chuckle away mindlessly or guffaw at something not truly humorous. That just isn't the rational way. And definitely nobody wants to artificially force himself into the world of phony, contrived, controlled, political-style laughter a la Bill Clinton sitting at some banquet table on stage. Far worse is the realm of all those dreadful, lifeless, "beautific," preacher-style smiles a la Jerry Falwell and Jim Baker. The grim, overserious, mirthless world of "god" makes for one hell of a fake, plastic, gargoyle smile! 


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Post 38

Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 5:11amSanction this postReply
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Coltontrail, you asked if Cousins' confidence in the curative power of laughter was based on more than anecdotal evidence. My understanding is that UCLA Medical School asked him to teach because it had its own evidence on the power of good spirits and laughter to make people better, and also because Cousins'cure was unprecedented.

Post 39

Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 11:49amSanction this postReply
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Greetings.

A few brief comments.

* First of all, no one mentioned any sort of initiation of force on this thread. Simply because I may think it is improper for some people to laugh on certain occasions, I am not trying to "impose" my terms on them. They are free to do whatever they wish. And I am also free to be disgusted by them in the process. Thus, for fairness' sake, do not, Jeremy, try to twist my words into something they are not.

* To Ms. Branden: The case of Norman Cousins is indeed anecdotal evidence at best. Correlation does not necessarily imply causation. Perhaps the Vitamin C cured Mr. Cousins, or another factor we have not yet considered. Your thesis may, of course, be correct, but I would like to see a definitive scientific study verifying it first. I will not hesitate to grant the contention that laughter may have beneficial fysiological effects, if such a contention is scientifically proved beyond reasonable doubt. Moreover, this still would not imply that we ought to laugh for the sake of laughing. Rather, this would mean that we could actively seek out actual situations that would inspire laughter. Examples of this could include writing or reading satirical works, seeking out witty aforisms, or, even better, working toward a genuine success that inspires triumfant, i.e. non-humorous, laughter.

If your thesis were indeed true (which it may be), none of it would imply laughing at things that must not be laughed at. Above all, we must recall Rand's urging, in Anthem, to retain a "temple of the spirit" within oneself, an ego which is kept entirely pure and sacrosanct, which admits no mockery of itself or of the things dear to it.

I am
G. Stolyarov II
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