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Sunday
November 7, 2004

Of Orion, Islam ... and the Contest of Ideas by Lindsay Perigo

The long & the short of this is that I have no perfect answer - but I'm always going to err on the side of the open exchange of ideas, even though I'm under no obligation to. We've all always known that upholding freedom of expression means upholding that freedom for its least attractive practitioners, as Ayn Rand once put it. (Read more...)
Discuss this Article (128 messages)

Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 2:50pm

You know what, now that I think on it more, recall some things on SOLOHQ I've seen...you could be right. I'll just leave it at: it's a shame Orion's skewed "conclusions" resulted in his apparent moderation and departure, without instead being resolved.

Monday, November 15, 2004 - 3:26am

Adam, your posts about evidence-proofing are very interesting. If I understand you, this is typical of conspiracy theorists. For instance: the CIA killed JFK; and if there is absolutely no evidence for this, that only proves how good the CIA is at concealing its tracks. But would you say that all conspiracy theorists are insane?

Barbara

Monday, November 15, 2004 - 6:23am

Linz said:

Nor am I impressed by the smug jokes about "medication" above. ... but I would still urge folk to engage their brains before their fingers when making gleeful jokes about someone's *genuine* psychiatric condition after it has become obvious that he *has* one.

Then I guess it's a good thing that my intention was not to impress you. Man, this must be the lowest point in my life. I'm getting sensitivity lessons from Lindsay.

Monday, November 15, 2004 - 9:41am

Jeremy,

Out of interest, where did you get the photograph? :-)

MH

Monday, November 15, 2004 - 11:32am

Brabara,

For what purpose, and in what context?

For the purpose of reasoned discussion of any topic that might touch on his delusions, a conspiracy-theorist should be treated by rational men as insane - reasoned discussion with a person who evidence-proofs his delusions would just be a waste of time.

For other purposes - that does depend on the context, doesn't it?

Monday, November 15, 2004 - 1:23pm

Adam: "For the purpose of reasoned discussion of any topic that might touch on his delusions, a conspiracy-theorist should be treated by rational men as insane."

Absolutely. And I have scars from hours or excruciating boredom to prove it.

Barbara

Monday, November 15, 2004 - 4:07pm

Linz:

"Part of the reason I was extra patient with Orion is that I became convinced that the problematic part of his behaviour was clinical in origin, & that he may well be in need of literal medication to bring it under control, if he isn't already on it. As you all know, I'm the last one to be touting nauseating PC-pseudo-sensibility towards self-created losers who invent psycho-babble excuses for their behaviour, but I would still urge folk to engage their brains before their fingers when making gleeful jokes about someone's *genuine* psychiatric condition after it has become obvious that he *has* one."

As thoughtless as a flip comment about someone "needing medication" might be (though it pales in comparison to the abuse Orion doled out), how can a serious conclusion that someone needs psychiatric help or psychiatric medication based only upon observation of the same tirade be any better?

Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 1:23am

Glenn wrote: "Man, this must be the lowest point in my life.� I'm getting sensitivity lessons from Lindsay."

Hahahaha! All is forgiven!

Naturally, *giving* sensitivity lessons to *anyone* is the lowest point in *my* life!

You Americans are *all* mad, of course. I've just turned off Six Feet Under bleating away on the TV behind me because it was driving *me* crazy! I've come to realise anew that the whining, self-indulgent, girlie, "sensitivity"-orientated behaviour supposedly parodied therein is not actually a parody. No wonder they've had to call the series to a halt. Real life trumps it!!!!!!

At one point, with my back to the screen, I heard one of the whiners whining about whatever, & his on-screen co-whiner at that moment whined in response, "Do you wanna talk about it?" And I yelled out, not for the first time recently, "FUCK OFF!!!!!!"

There was a time when, emblazoned across the sky, "from sea to shining sea," were the words, " ... that among these rights are the right to life, liberty & the *pursuit* of happiness." Those were the words of muscular individualists. Now, from sea to shining sea, everyone is in therapy, because happiness wasn't guaranteed & contemporary Americans are too stupefied by modern psycho-babble to know how to *begin* to pursue it! Emotional 90-pound weaklings. What now *needs* to be emblazoned across the sky, from sea to shing sea, are the words, "Get over yourselves!!"

Phew! That's better.

Bloody Six Feet Under!!

Back to Bruch!!

Linz

Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 1:32am

Mr. Perigo,

I know your opinion of this type of music and certainly don't want to get into THAT with you. I just want to point out that you might enjoy the spirit (if not the music itself) of the Eagles' song: Get Over It.

Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 7:28am

I love it, Linz! Indeed, many Americans seem to think that happiness is satisfying desires rather than cultivating talents, undertaking challenges, and living � not being alive � but living a life. A dose of muscular kick-ass individualism is henceforth prescribed. Let�s roll!
(Edited by Jason Pappas on 11/16, 8:14pm)

Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 8:00am

Please bear in mind that the American media is dominated by the liberals from California (and to a lesser extent New York), and that the "feminization" of America is part of their tree-hugging, vegetarian, Yoga, socialist, Euro-trash agenda. The real Americans, especially from the Red states (Republican, not Communist), eat steak rare and walk ten miles in the snow to hunt for deer with the rifles or shotguns we keep in the backseat of our pick-up trucks.

Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 8:02am

Now, from sea to shining sea, everyone is in therapy, because happiness wasn't guaranteed & contemporary Americans are too stupefied by modern psycho-babble to know how to *begin* to pursue it!

Sadly, how right you are. America used to be a place where I was proud to be a rugged individualist -- where nothing mattered but my goals and the rational pursuit of them. However, I find myself increasingly out of place in this "woe is me" culture, where everything is someone else's fault.

"Unhappy? Overweight? Impotent? Business failed? It's not your fault!! It might even be all the carbs you are eating! Here, take two of these pills and call your therapist in the morning."

American culture is so caught up in reality TV, image, celebrities, and inane distractions that I feel as if I am trapped in a nuthouse, and I'm the only one who knows what kind of institution it is. I cannot even bring myself to turn on the television anymore, as I know it will be a waste of time.

Where did my parents' America go? I wonder if it will ever return.

Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 8:04am

Double post deleted.
(Edited by Jennifer Iannolo on 11/16, 8:06am)

Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 8:04am

Tenya, my favorite line in that song is: "I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass!" :)

Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 8:26am

Linz:

"You Americans are *all* mad, of course. I've just turned off Six Feet Under bleating away on the TV behind me because it was driving *me* crazy! I've come to realise anew that the whining, self-indulgent, girlie, "sensitivity"-orientated behaviour supposedly parodied therein is not actually a parody. No wonder they've had to call the series to a halt. Real life trumps it!!!!!!"

Hey, that's enough of your anti-Americanism, mister! Don't mess with Texas...:P

And because I woke up cranky...

6 FEET UNDER? BAH!!! DOUBLE BAH! BRING BACK MARRIED WITH CHILDREN!

Al Bundy made the comment that Linz made, but years ago...that in the old movies, the hero kicked ass, but now, they all want to talk about their feelings. Last Action Hero, indeed. Now, I am all for diplomacy, but there does come a point where I just want to say shut the F*(K up, you whiny brat!

I think there is a conspiracy on TV to demasculinize the American male. Every other tv commercial has a stupid husband and a strong smart wife, or there is a group of men acting like children and the wife becomes the mother. Now, I am all for women's rights, would not want to return to June Cleaver, but C'MON! The worst one of all is a commercial where a dad gets cell phones for the wife and daughter, and says we can all talk to each other...they give him a cold stare, until the mother says " you can talk to your friends!" All the women in the room hug joyously, when the man (who paid for the damn phones!) tries to hug, they walk away, leaving him alone dogfaced and pussified.
Lillian Reardon, eat your heart out!

"You know what I blame this on the downfall of? Society."
-MOE SIZLACK

Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 8:32am

However, I find myself increasingly out of place in this "woe is me" culture, where everything is someone else's fault.

Jennifer, I do not agree. Is America really caught up in a "woe is me" culture, or is this the culture rammed down your throat by every television station, newspaper and magazine? There are 300 million Americans, and 30-million get all the press. The whiners, aberrants and wackos run their mouths the loudest, always has been - always will be. Trust me, I have often shook my head and bought into this view of America from time to time. But then I remind myself of the other 270 million Americans. The silent majority. As Byron said:

The real Americans, especially from the Red states (Republican, not Communist), eat steak rare and walk ten miles in the snow to hunt for deer with the rifles or shotguns we keep in the backseat of our pick-up trucks.

This is no small group. True, the "overlap" percentage between these folks and the whiners is large indeed. And, I may even admit that there is an argument for saying that the whiner element is becoming larger. That said, I do not believe it represents any majority - in fact I believe it is still the overwhelming minority.

Take note that nearly the only western nation that is still willing to assert any form of muscularity whatsoever (check out Iraq or Afghanistan) is the United States. If we have become an effeminate whining society of therapy seekers, then the conclusion I would have to arrive at about nearly all of our western brothers is that they were castrated decades ago! Which of course means that they may be right, after all; who better than a complete eunuck can recoginize someone about to go under the knife.

Personally, I don't buy the argument of an America that is no more than its Hollywood dipcition. And I sure as hell won't buy it from people living in other countries that long ago ascribed to that Hollywood worldview.

George

Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 8:45am

Yes Joe!!!

WTF is going on with the fat dopey husbands with hot wives, the weather girls with fake boobs (no more overweight jovial guys), and the makeover shows. I cant turn on the tv anymore, unless its to watch CSI to hear them say "we just follow the evidence".

John

Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 9:00am

The woman are marrying the fat dopey husbands because the fat dopey husband knows he lucked out, and will do whatever she says...

(disclaimer: this is tv logic, not my real opinion. Told you I woke up cranky, and this how I am when I am cranky. So BAH!)
(Edited by Joe Maurone on 11/16, 8:58pm)

Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 11:38am

Jennifer wrote: "Sadly, how right you are. America used to be a place where I was proud to be a rugged individualist -- where nothing mattered but my goals and the rational pursuit of them."

To echo George, I strongly disagree with this. America, for the most part, is that place and more. You cannot judge America based on what you see and hear in the media. The media does not speak for the silent majority. This silent majority spoke up on November 2nd, and it does not care that the British press feels they're stupid. It is too bad those Hollywood and MTV types did not all pack up and move to France.

In the weeks leading up to the Marines going into Afghanistan, I remember there was this spook from the CIA who gave the Marines an intelligence briefing. He said that the Taliban were fearless, battle-hardened fighters who proved themselves against the Soviets. He said they make mince-meat of American soldiers softened by playing too much video games, watching too much television, and softened by too much annual sensitivity training (which I do hate). Anyone who thinks Americans were soft should have seen the Marines who took Kandahar, Afghanistan by storm. The Taliban never stood a chance. I pity those insurgents that had the misfortune of facing the Marines in Fallujah, too. We Americans kick ass and take names. So to all you ladies with funny accents who think they've got what it takes, I say bring it on and come get some.

Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 12:20pm

"So to all you ladies with funny accents who think they've got what it takes, I say bring it on and come get some."

Byron, I hope you are not being serious about American soldiers raping civilians.
That would be an extremely stupid thing to write.

If it was a joke however, should we take the rest of your last post as a joke also?