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Monday, January 31, 2005 - 12:36amSanction this postReply
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Well said, Robert.

It seems like SOLO has had its own Iraq attack today.  :) 

As I mentioned in another post this evening, the discovery of such a successful voter turnout was moving, indeed.

Undoubtedly the pundits will argue that this is only a "symbolic" victory, that there is still very far to go.

But they got to this step, and it is a glorious one.  The most important, in fact.  

It makes me want to dance and sing knowing that Iraqi men and women, in all parts of that country, were able to walk out of a voting booth feeling like the most important person in the world, because they had the opportunity, the right, to say "This, in my name."


Post 1

Monday, January 31, 2005 - 1:09amSanction this postReply
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"To the Iraqis! Long may they prosper in Liberty!"

Well said! Thanks Robert.


Post 2

Monday, January 31, 2005 - 2:47amSanction this postReply
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You've always been so staunch & decent, Robert—it was a pleasure, but not a surprise, to receive this article from you today, and a total pleasure to post it. You are a Nem Plus!!

Linz

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Post 3

Monday, January 31, 2005 - 8:14amSanction this postReply
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Jennifer - Yes it was magnificent wasn't it!

 I was glued to Fox News for the first two hours of polling. These being the infamous "witching hours" after morning prayers when the suicide bombers are at their worst. It was awful. I was expecting at any moment to hear that one of those murdering pricks had infiltrated a polling place and blown himself to bits.

But in the end I was elated! As was Hiraldo Rivera - Fox News reporter - who was gushing as he stood and described the site from a roof-top in the outer security cordon of a polling place in a small city outside of Baghdad.

Yes they have a long way to go. The constitution they are hoping to draft will make or break them I think.

But then even the US constitution wasn't perfect to start with. The American Forefathers omitted the bit about banning slavery. I've heard estimates that 1 million Americans died in the Civil War that ended slavery. God knows how many have died since 1865 trying to win equality for the black man in this country.

The constitution as drafted didn't even garuantee women the right to vote and own property! I know for a fact that when Kansas was formed that women weren't allowed to vote and own land. Considering how easy it was to become widowed in those days I shudder to think about the consequences of that "little omission"! I seem to remember President Wilson was campaigning for Imperial Germany's right to fair treatment in 1918-19 while denying the same to American women! Contrast this with the number of female Iraqis voting yesterday!

But despite all that the USA hasn't turned out all that bad. That is why I am optimistic about Iraq.

Marcus and Linz. Thank you both for your kind words.

As to my support of the war - you are welcome. I'm not a great fan of war. I've spent too much time reading the history of WWI & II to believe in all the glorified sacrifice bullshit.

But if WWII showed anything it was that when a fight is inevitable, it is better to fight when the opponent is at his weakest. Britain and France waited until the last possible minute in 1939 and it cost them, the Commonwealth and the USA dearly.

Not this time thankfully. Yes even one dead soldier is a heavy price to pay. But one needs only to stand and look at the number of names on the Vietnam memorial or the ocean of white crosses in the Commonwealth cemeteries in and around Flanders or Cassino to see how bad it *could* have been.


Post 4

Monday, January 31, 2005 - 11:29amSanction this postReply
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Your title says it all to people of good will. What is sickening to me is that it isn't a universal cry.

Post 5

Monday, January 31, 2005 - 1:44pmSanction this postReply
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Robert:

If there is one thing that can top your wonderful article, it is your post #3 above.

And if there is one thing that can best your post # 3 it is the sheer joy I feel tonight in the knowledge that Iraqi's are now freer than they have ever been, and that the deaths of the courageous soldiers who made it happen were not in vain.

My respect for the idea and people of America also feels vindicated. Although Britain and other (notably Anglo-Saxon) countries pitched in, this was THEIR war, and they deserve to be bathed in gratitude.

Thank you.

David


Post 6

Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 7:57pmSanction this postReply
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An outstanding, heartfelt message, Robert. Thank you so much. I can only echo your eloquent statement of praise of the courage of ordinary Iraqis in standing up for self-determination against the bloodlusting thugs who would enslave them. Witnessing such defiant bravery and self-assertion was a tonic for my own spirit--and an affirmation of the truth that the spirit of Man cannot and will not be destroyed.

For a wonderful moment, we were all Iraqis--and they were all Americans.


Post 7

Friday, February 4, 2005 - 12:42amSanction this postReply
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Hey Mr. Bidonotto, I hear there is an opening for a new Bush neocon shill. Pays well too. Kindly send in your application. Easy too. Just parrot whatever Rice says about Iraq and don't bother thinking.

Post 8

Friday, February 4, 2005 - 1:01amSanction this postReply
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Are you not gone yet, Fulwiler, or do you get a kick out of heckling intelligent, honest minds with your prattle?

You've now said goodbye twice.  I'm hoping one of these times you'll actually mean it.


Post 9

Friday, February 4, 2005 - 6:45amSanction this postReply
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Jennifer, the jerk can't spell, either.

Hey Mark -- it's B-I-D-I-N-O-T-T-O.

A medical request: If you ever manage to dig up a single intelligible argument from those online trash heaps where you "market anarchists" spin your interminable masturbatory fantasies about Private Protection Agencies, please DON'T post it here. The sheer unexpected shock of it might stop our hearts.


Post 10

Friday, February 4, 2005 - 7:43amSanction this postReply
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Mr. Bidnotta, Bibota, Bibbotta, Nottibibo,

You said to Mark: A medical request: If you ever manage to dig up a single intelligible argument from those online trash heaps where you "market anarchists" spin your interminable masturbatory fantasies about Private Protection Agencies, please DON'T post it here. The sheer unexpected shock of it might stop our hearts.
 
Don't be so hard on the guys masturbatory tendencies, it's he only way he can have sex with someone that's willing.

George


Post 11

Friday, February 4, 2005 - 7:59amSanction this postReply
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George, are you suggesting that "anarcho-capitalism" is the intellectual equivalent of premature ejaculation?

Post 12

Friday, February 4, 2005 - 8:11amSanction this postReply
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yes

Post 13

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 5:59pmSanction this postReply
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Its easy to gang up on critics like Fulwiler. But he does have a strong point. Many of the above posts prove that Fox news propoganda is being swallowed without thought.

The fact is that the results of the election confirm that it was above all a Shiite event. The joy the world witnessed at the polling places was mostly Shiite joy.  What the election was not was a decision by "the Iraqi people." It was a fraud.  This is an election that U.S. policymakers were forced to accept and now hope can entrench their power, not displace it. They seek not an election that will lead to a U.S. withdrawal, but one that will bolster their ability to make a case for staying indefinitely.  A real election cannot go on under foreign occupation in which the electoral process is managed by the occupiers who have clear preferences in the outcome.  The casting of ballots will not create a legitimate Iraqi government. Such a government is possible only when Iraqis have real control over their own future. And that will come only when the United States is gone.

Fulwiler should not go just because he makes US state worshipers uncomfortable!


Post 14

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 10:32pmSanction this postReply
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Interesting, No6, that you should prattle on so...do you read what you're writing?

First of all, none of us are U.S. state worshippers, witness the very positive appeal of my anti-inauguration article. Furthermore, it's interesting that you state that Iraqis will only control their own destinies when the United States leaves...so, did they have their destinies in their hands prior to the fall of Saddam? Should we thank or curse the United States for that? Blank out.

If anything, the United States has an honest interest in a pluralistic government, because a Shi'ite rule would be the rise of the Ayatollahs and a proto-Iranian state. So why your strange contention that a Shi'ite election is what the United States wanted?

I think what bothers me most is that you assume that merely because there are foreigners running the show at the moment means that every Iraqi will bend over and play Paris Hilton. But the insurgency and the Shi'ite Clerics put paid to that in a hurry.

Fulwiler doesn't make me uncomfortable, despite Peikoff's admonition to "stick to a position", I am still debating with myself over the idea of invading and reforming non-threatening (or minorly threatening) nations. Fulwiler makes me angry because he launches ad hominems instead of real debate, but since you do the same thing, birds of a feather...

Post 15

Friday, February 8, 2013 - 9:06amSanction this postReply
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Looking back on the events of 2005 (and the entire engagement), and contrasting that with the latest news, how do you assess the outcome?


Post 16

Saturday, February 9, 2013 - 3:13amSanction this postReply
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It is my view that Bush took out the wrong dictator, he should have went after Iran ifff anyone at all. Also we should not be "nation building", or providing foreign aid to anyone at all that supports a regime that is antithetical to western ideals. If a nation is going spend money on humanitarian efforts abroad but yet there are homeless and destitute people in your own house would it not make more sense to fix your own social ills before even attempting to extend benevolence to other nations? Not that I am endorsing either activity but simply pointing out the hypocrisy of foreign policies in place.
A return to "don't tread on me" makes more sense.

Post 17

Saturday, February 9, 2013 - 11:33amSanction this postReply
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Jules, How has Iran attacked american citizens? If anything, Iran has only assisted middle eastern people defend themselves against US military aggression. Given the recent non-defensive non-retaliatory and non-clear and present danger pre-emptive wars initiated by the US military, I can't see how you can say we should have attacked Iran.

Post 18

Saturday, February 9, 2013 - 12:45pmSanction this postReply
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Michael, I was opposed to the US invasion of Iraq. Once we had launched, I hoped for success, including minimal casualties. After the major combat operations, after we overthrew the government, I thought it our responsibility to try to help in bringing about a replacement government. During that long period, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives were lost. The US decision to invade Iraq, which had neither attacked us nor plausibly had any capability to do so nor plausibly any nuclear capability, is partly to blame for that calamity.

I was actually surprised at the slowness with which Iraq inched towards all-out civil war. Whatever sense of a unified nation they had, I still think it was a mistake in our assistance to their transition to a new government for the US to have imposed the requirement that the country remain one country, not divide itself into a handful of different ones. Be that as it may, whatever happens to them now (and however much Persian power increases in the region), it will have been partly the result of our invasion and overthrow of their government.

Jules and Dean, I would anticipate any attack we make against Iran would be limited to destroying their nuclear enrichment facilities. Like that destruction, whatever defenses have to be overcome to accomplish that destruction would proceed only by air and sea. I do support such an attack if and when the time for alternative nuclear stop has run out. I do not regard it as purely for defense of the US, though in a somewhat remote way it includes that. It is, rather, a special responsibility the civilized world takes on itself to prevent the acquisition of nuclear weapons and their delivery systems by additional, bellicose countries (cf. a, b).

(Edited by Stephen Boydstun on 2/09, 1:15pm)


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Post 19

Saturday, February 9, 2013 - 2:13pmSanction this postReply
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Dean,
How has Iran attacked american citizens? If anything, Iran has only assisted middle eastern people defend themselves against US military aggression.
No way anyone can say that the support of terrorists who attack and kill Americans is only assisting in a defense against American militarism. Some of the current leaders of Iran were instrumental in the take over of the American Embassy in Tehran under Carter - eight Americans killed - and this was long before any American military activity in the Middle East. Jihad dates back much further than our military activities anywhere - back to before America existed!

The Iranian government funded and directed the creation and supply of IEDs to terrorist elements in Iraq - killing Americans. That wasn't to assist the Iraqis who have always been their enemy. It was to attack us, and/or to further destabilize Iraq, and/or to support the particular fundamentalists that they agree with against other Muslim factions.

Americans were killed in Lebanon when Iran directed attacks via Hezbollah against the US Embassy. There was also the bombing of the US Marine barracks. Then there was the TWA hijacking which resulted in the death of an American.

Iranian funded and directed Al Quads Force trains terrorists and participates in terrorism in Iran and in the Sudan. There are believed to be over 10,000 Iranians that are part of Pasdaran who engage in terror activities in Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, Sudan, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.

The Iranian Revolutionary Guard has killed Americans and has ties to the Japanese Red Army, Hezbollah, Hamas and half-a-dozen other terrorist groups.

There were close ties between the Al Qaeda operatives responsible for 911 and Hezbollah and with the state of Iran... with Hezbollah and Iran lending support to them just prior to that attack.

There isn't a day that goes by without a fatal Jihadist attack on someone, somewhere in the world. There have been tens of thousands of fatal attacks since 911. Americans are lucky that we don't number higher among these victims. Those fundamentalist nutcases with their toxic 'philosophy' are like dogs with rabies. The fact that we have been in the middle east again and again when we shouldn't have does cause blow-back, but that blow-back is akin to being within the view of a pack of mad dogs and that is not a moral cause for the attacks.

Jihad has become front and center stage of world politics since the Iranian revolution, but fundamentalists in that part of the world have been killing people in the name of their religion for centuries. Blaming America for Iranian murders of Americans is just wrong.

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