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Post 0

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 1:02amSanction this postReply
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Joe, I enjoyed this article - this might be one of your best.  Your 'Bob' example was an excellent depiction of what the 'path of least resistance' approach can do to somebody, and it was effective because it was very much set  in the real world. 

I admit to struggling with this sometimes in my own personal dealings, as I have an aversion to confrontation.  The path of least resistance is simply the path of evasion.    


Post 1

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 3:40amSanction this postReply
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Joe,

This read sort of like an Aesop's fable :-). Though I think many Objectivist "Bobs" make a different kind of mistake. They sit around hoping the perfect person will come along, not practicing their romantic skills and dating into a high male/female ratio environment.

Jim


Post 2

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 6:33amSanction this postReply
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Reading this article was a "lightbulb" moment for me.

Post 3

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 7:04amSanction this postReply
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Another superb piece, Joe.

I think you need to apply for your own "Dr. Phil" TV show.

Don't put it off...   ;^)


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Post 4

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 7:36amSanction this postReply
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Excellent article, as usual, Joe.  It illustrates a number of valuable lessons for budding young Objectivists such as:
  • The critical importance of self-esteem -- specifically, the pillar of self-assertiveness.  All the skill and reason and productive capacity in the world amount to nothing if one lacks both clarity about one's own unique values and the willingness to pursue them.  The catch?  One must often date a number of different people in order to acquire the needed self-knowledge for such clarity.  For the shy and unattractive, this can prove an overwhelming challenge.  The solution?  Work on actualizing one's own potential first before becoming entangled in a relationship.
  • The need to develop, up front, an effective exit strategy when journeying into unknown territory.  The investment book If It Doesn't Go Up, Don't Buy It! notes that many books talk about "buy and hold" but few ever discuss when and how and why to dump non-performing stocks.  Likewise, many books exist on building and maintaining romantic relationships, but far fewer speak of the hard work needed to end mediocre ones and learn to be happy being alone while searching for a romance that adds value to one's life.
  • The mandate to adopt the following attitude in all human relationships: Every individual bears ultimate responsibility for handling his or her own emotional responses.  This attitude would immediately have dissolved Bob's apprehensions about hurting this girl's feelings by dumping her early in the relationship.  If she feels hurt by it, that feeling is ultimately her problem, not his.
In short, one needs to apply reason, purpose and self-esteem to romance as judiciously as one applies it to the pursuit of a career, the purchase of a car or home, etc.


Post 5

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 8:09amSanction this postReply
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A superb lesson. This short story was an excellent way to concretize the consequences of using rationalizations to indulge the emotional easy-path today at the expense of one’s life in the long-run. It also dovetails nicely with your past article in illustrating the need to adhere to rational principles in practice on an on-going basis. As always, I like these applied philosophy articles with real life examples that can make a difference in one's own life.

The article reminded me of the Paul Simon song. What’s the name of that song?


Post 6

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 8:45amSanction this postReply
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This article demonstrates that Joe is not only smart, but also perceptive and wise. Bravo.

Post 7

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 9:20amSanction this postReply
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I agree with Scott's evaluation of Joe--wholeheartedly.

Ed

Post 8

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 10:15amSanction this postReply
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Joe,

I appreciate this article. Thanks for this well crafted story with its poignant point.

Post 9

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 10:44amSanction this postReply
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In short, one needs to apply reason, purpose and self-esteem to romance as judiciously as one applies it to the pursuit of a career, the purchase of a car or home, etc.
C'mon Luke, you can't be a buzzkill 100% of the time can you?  People and relationships are in a completely different category than cars and stuff. Although both are values, they are certainly not in the same league. It's not that cut and dried.

Joe had several good points in his article that I can relate to, having recently dumped a guy I was living with for over four years and prior to that being in a loveless marriage for ten years. I realize that I stayed in those relationships too long because I have trouble walking away when people are dying or seriously ill. Girls, take my advice and don't date men with heart failure.  

It is not that easy to break-up, especially when you care deeply for someone and they have been very good to you. My ex and are still good friends and will always share a deep bond because of the honesty, caring and respect that kept us together for so long. The ex-hubby is a completely different story. But one thing I have learned the hard way is that no one can ever lay claim on me like that again. I've found exactly what I want and will never ever settle.


Post 10

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 11:09amSanction this postReply
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Excellent Joe. This one hit home for me personally. Going through life in safe mode is no way to live.

Luke I agree with you on that last point. People often put *more* thought in what kind of house or car they will buy than into whether or not they should be getting involved with another person romantically.

Thanks for the article Joe.

John

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Post 11

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 11:48amSanction this postReply
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Very solid article. I've dated a few "least resistance" guys in my time. I knew something was wrong but assumed the other person still wanted to be with me - otherwise he'd break things off. So I couldn't figure out why he wasn't willing to work things out. More than once, I had to be the one to say "Do you want to break up?" while the guy sheepishly mumbled yes. Had they broken up with me when they realized they weren't into the relationship, they could have saved us both a whole bunch of wasted time. As it was, I had to piece together what was really wrong and take action. Had I not figured it out, it could have dragged on indefinitely.

The one issue I have with the article is casting the hypothetical girlfriend as becoming fat and slovenly. Up until then, Bob is making bad choices and being dishonest with himself and his girlfriend. They are both paying the price by remaining in a sham relationship. When you introduce the idea that the woman lets herself go, the focus shifts. Now Bob can be pitied, stuck with a wife who has gone to seed and is a burden to him. That's really a separate problem, one that can happen even when both people want to be in the relationship. If Bob's girlfriend had remained active and attractive after marriage, would his path of least resistance be more justifiable? The bind he's in is not being saddled with a frumpy housewife, but remaining in an empty relationship through his own inaction. This is true despite how the woman may or may not have changed. I think the point is better made without relying on the stereotype of a fat, lazy wife.


Post 12

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 11:59amSanction this postReply
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I meet many many people like Bob, male and female. Stuck in miserable situations, like relationships, they complain and whine endlessly about their lives but do nothing to *change*. Indeed I have myself been a Bob at times in my life.

Saying "no" is sometimes a pre-requisite to finally saying YES to life.

Post 13

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 12:55pmSanction this postReply
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"You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em..."

But as Joe points out, you also gotta have the guts to do it.




(Edited by Robert Bidinotto
on 5/20, 12:56pm)


Post 14

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 1:31pmSanction this postReply
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Jason, the Paul Simon song is "50 Ways to Leave Your Lover."

Post 15

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 2:02pmSanction this postReply
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Kat: "People and relationships are in a completely different category than cars and stuff."

Damn it, no! NOOOOO!!!! People and realtionships are EXACTLY THE SAME as cars and stuff!!! EXACTLY!!!!! Article to follow....

Angela: "...without relying on the stereotype of a fat, lazy wife."

Now, see, I actually try to somehow work the stereotypew of the fat, lazy housewife into EVERY conversation, argument, and article. It's difficult in a political or economics discussion, but if you're committed, it CAN be done!

John: "Indeed I have myself been a Bob at times in my life."

Dude, let's start a Bobaholics anonymous club! Serial monogamist...guilty! Some-time Bob...guilty....

Post 16

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 2:04pmSanction this postReply
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'Ramblin' Robert Bidinotto: "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em..."

Any time a conversation is illuminated with the lyrical wisdom of a Kenny Rogers, hey, I'm in. Now, Mr. B, if you could somehow work in something about fat lazy housewives and how they are EXACTLY LIKE cars and stuff, dude, we're cooking with gas!




(Edited by Scott DeSalvo
on 5/20, 2:55pm)


Post 17

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 2:11pmSanction this postReply
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Scott, maybe as a long-term project we can translate all of Objectivism into song lyrics?

...Naw. I forgot: we're Objectivists. We'd get all hung up on whether it was "moral" to cite country & Western, whether "rap" was valid music or whether opera lyrics in Italian represented "multiculturalism."

What was I thinking?

Post 18

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 2:22pmSanction this postReply
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Great article and point, Joe. This was a hard lesson for me. The excuse for not being more assertive always was, "I don't want to hurt anybody." Of course, everybody ends up more hurt, particularly yourself.

If you are with the wrong person, get out of it tonight. If you are away from the right person, get back into it this morning!

Post 19

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 2:26pmSanction this postReply
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"I don't want to hurt anybody." Of course, everybody ends up more hurt, particularly yourself.
That's why I called it a lightbulb moment - I had "sort of" gotten the feeling that the easier course was wrong, but Joe's article drove it home. 

I have to say, this is why I actually liked the scene towards the end of Atlas Shrugged in which Dagny goes with John Galt instead of Francisco - even though I hated to see Francisco alone,  it was illustrative of the principle outlined above & in the article.


If you are with the wrong person, get out of it tonight. If you are away from the right person, get back into it this morning!
Wonderful, James!

Jason



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