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Post 20

Monday, May 23, 2005 - 7:49amSanction this postReply
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Luke,

I do think you were unnecessarily cruel to these girls. Let's review the context of this get together: You are a young engineer working for NASA and you invite two girls to stay at your apartment near the beach for "spring break." [Notice the dumb period INSIDE the quotation marks]. NOT ONCE did you make a pass a either one of these girls even though the conversation, at their instigation contained sexual overtones. They hooted at men, and suggested you hoot at the girls. You already stated you didn't believe in god, you could have easily steered the conversation to recreational sex. There were two of them. What an opportunity. All that nagging was simply trying to get your attention and it all went completely over your head. They obviously felt safe with you, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't appreciate a little recognition of their sex appeal. All women want to feel they are attractive to the opposite sex. Friendly, non-threatening passes are a compliment to women. They give plenty of signals if they wouldn't mind a pass from you. You completely missed the signals. That's all that happened in your story. You hurt their feelings for no reason, but the very worst thing is you had an opportunity to have some fun and turned it into a conflict. At the first nag I would have said right off "You girls bring your bikinis? Let's have a look." Then sneak a peek while they're putting them on.

"Needless to say, the remainder of their "vacation" in my apartment brought little joy to anyone concerned."

No kidding. Arrgh.

Post 21

Monday, May 23, 2005 - 7:57amSanction this postReply
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You mean "the consummated passion between men" was held higher than that between man and woman?

Hong, that's exactly what I meant.  I was very surprised to find this as well.  I figured passion between men would just be considered a substitute.  In fact, it seems to have been held as an ideal.  The reason is the view of women, at least the view of women held by an athletic, masculinity-idealizing culture.  Male-male 'dealings' were considered to be untainted by the 'softness' or 'weakness' that relations with women were considered to...er...entail.

I have a caveat here: most (though not all) of my exposure to this subject has been through sources who have an interest in maintaining homosexual relationships as some sort of a) acceptable alternative or b) ideal alternative.  So I stand ready to revise my understanding based on any facts to the contrary, of course.  But that's the impression my research has yielded so far. 

Another pertinent point here is what sort of relationships these male-male bondings were.  They were not the 'relationship of equals' we have today, i.e., a coming together of men roughly the same age for a monogomous relationship.  They were typically a bond between a man of about 25-30 with a teenager of about 15-16.  They had a strong element of 'mentorship,' but they had strict rules regarding sexual activities.  The older man would never allow himself to be penetrated, for that would be deemed unmanly.  He would completely lose face otherwise.  The younger man was always the receiver and would not be given the opportunity to 'switch roles' until he had his own protégé later.  The older man typically was married and had a wife, as that was considered very much a duty of his role in society.

Jason


Post 22

Monday, May 23, 2005 - 7:58amSanction this postReply
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Mike, I would have to dredge much more history between myself and Lorraine to provide the full context, but I can safely say that no one planned this to be anything sexual.  So your suggestions about sexual overtones are just plain wrong.  All I really wanted was a basic level of emotional gratitude because, as far as I was concerned, I had the high ground as the landlord-in-effect.  Why did the guys who stayed express this basic civility while the gals did not?  "Bah," I say.

Post 23

Monday, May 23, 2005 - 10:27amSanction this postReply
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Luke,

"Why did the guys who stayed express this basic civility while the gals did not?"

Because there are ALWAYS sexual overtones to relations between men and women, even "platonic" ones. There was a study a few years back that concluded that men think about sex about every two minutes during the day, women slightly less. (I don't know the exact numbers). Now you can look at this fact and say "I'M not going to be some kind of pervert." Or you can accept it as a basic fact of human nature and use it to generate a little goodwill. And have a little fun. That doesn't mean you try to have sex with every women you meet. I don't mean that at all. Young women do a lot of role playing with "safe" men to try and develop their skills at flirting and attracting men. If all they've ever seen is their mother nagging, I guess they'll try that. Anyway, I feel sort of sorry for your friend, who was your invited guest and went home crying. I guess she started with something besides nagging next time. I'm not any kind of psychologist, I've just always been very fond of women and enjoy observing them. I hear a nag and I think "hmmm, I wonder what she REALLY wants."

I guess we just have much different experiences and personalities. I do enjoy your posts and your story was funny.

Post 24

Monday, May 23, 2005 - 10:57amSanction this postReply
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Mike wrote:
There was a study a few years back that concluded that men think about sex about every two minutes during the day, women slightly less. (I don't know the exact numbers).
Wow!  Two minutes is a long time to go without thinking about sex!    ;-)

Just kidding.  I had learned in a Gary Smalley video about relationships in the early 1990s that men think about sex every three to five minutes (as I recall).  He did not say that women thought about it nearly as often.  He described men as "microwave ovens" and women as "crockpots" regarding how they "warm up" to the sex act.  But he is a Christian and so I suspect his interpretations of scientific research have a religious "spin" to them.


Post 25

Monday, May 23, 2005 - 11:00amSanction this postReply
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Luke: "Phil, you clearly have a much higher tolerance for nagging than I have."

I think it depends on volume (constant vs. occasional unsolicited advice) and balance (the balance between negativity and positives in the time you spend together). [Wow, I smell a Ph.D. thesis... or a flowchart.]

Weird MSK: "Hey Luke! Try to see if you can come up with the telephone numbers of Lorraine and Kathleen and send them to Phil."

Funny! :-) :-)

WMSK: "Let's see how long it takes him to join the Bear Hog Nipple Club."

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Stop speaking Brazilian. :-)

--Phil
(Edited by Philip Coates
on 5/23, 11:03am)


Post 26

Monday, May 23, 2005 - 12:28pmSanction this postReply
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He described men as "microwave ovens" and women as "crockpots" regarding how they "warm up" to the sex act. 
What a filthy lie.

:)


Post 27

Monday, May 23, 2005 - 12:29pmSanction this postReply
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Just because your crock pot has a nuclear-powered heating element doesn't make it any less true, Jennifer.

Post 28

Monday, May 23, 2005 - 1:15pmSanction this postReply
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Jason,

The best microwaves come in female form. This is not SOLO homo :-)



Post 29

Monday, May 23, 2005 - 1:23pmSanction this postReply
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Marcus, we're everywhere, just like Santa Clause :-)

Post 30

Monday, May 23, 2005 - 1:28pmSanction this postReply
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Hmm, just thought of something.  Microwaves were the metaphor for men.  So a man in female form is a drag queen (or a pre-op transsexual). Hmm, Marcus, what sort of folk have you been trucking with, lately?

Post 31

Monday, May 23, 2005 - 2:18pmSanction this postReply
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A while back, a poster here asked (in jest) "why does Objectivism always seem to come back to Robots and Aliens?"

Well, that poster can rest assured that we at SOLO are trying to rectify this, by ensuring that any discussion about Objectivism comes back to Robots, Aliens, and Sex.

:-)

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Post 32

Monday, May 23, 2005 - 5:06pmSanction this postReply
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Phil,

Not Portuguese. Typo.

I meant Boar Hog Dimple Club, er...

Bear Hug Nickle Flub, er...

Poor Dog Simple Glug...

er...

Puta que pariu, meu! Que porra!

Michael


Post 33

Monday, May 23, 2005 - 8:26pmSanction this postReply
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Jason,
Though we are off the topic of the thread but I am very interested in what you said. I actually CAN imagine why ancient Greeks consider love between men is of higher form than that between man and woman. In addition to the inequality in physicals as you stated, I guess their society probably also didn't view women as to have equal mind as men, right?

It is strange though that there is no lesbian among SOLO posters. I'd been interested to hear that side of point of view. 

My own history probably only provides a very "straight" point of view. During my university days, we had 5 or 6 girls share a dorm room for 5 years. Most of our hometowns were far away from the university. We were very intimate then in a completely non-sexual way. I remember there were moments that I felt deep and rather intense affection for certain girls, and I had no idea what homosexuality was at the time! Even today, all my roommates still have this very strong bond and special understandings since we used to live together for 5 years and have since had very similar life experience. In some aspects, I feel that we understand each other even better than our spouses do!


Post 34

Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 5:02amSanction this postReply
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Hong, your deep friendships sound like a form of fraternal love similar to that felt between siblings who grew from childhood into adulthood together in the same home.  Consider yourself fortunate to have such close friends.  I sometimes wonder if American society discourages this type of close friendship because of homophobic paranoia, especially among men.

(Edited by Luther Setzer on 5/24, 6:54am)


Post 35

Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 6:47amSanction this postReply
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Luke,
That was very enlightening! Thanks! 

(Edited by Hong Zhang on 5/24, 6:51am)


Post 36

Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 10:01amSanction this postReply
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Oh man! Hahaha.

You have more patience than I do!  I would have tossed them after the second day!



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Post 37

Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 1:43pmSanction this postReply
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In Louisiana, historically hosts were expected to make their houseguests a gift of a pineapple upon their departure.  A houseguest would know if she had overstayed her welcome if she woke up one morning to find the pineapple waiting for her at the foot of the bed.  Around here, pineapples are a symbol of hospitality as well as a tactful way of getting out of providing hospitality without an awkward scene.  I think we ought to revive this practice.



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Post 38

Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 2:19pmSanction this postReply
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I remember a story about some hosts who decided that their guests had seriously overstayed their welcome.  After dinner, the hosts all put their plates on the floor so the dogs could "clean" the plates.  Then the lady of house announced that Rover had done such a fine job of licking the plate clean that there was no need to wash it any further and put it in the kitchen cabinet.



Post 39

Thursday, April 20 - 9:50amSanction this postReply
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Hair in the shower, water on the bathroom floor and the relentless complaining: Why women are the house guests from HELL

 

"Liz claims when she lets out her room to women they often leave the bedroom and bathroom in a mess, festooned with empty shopping bags and remains of ready meals. Women make up most of her guests."



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