|Well it seems to me that you are all saying that, for values to have meaning, a person must choose life over death, and then you're deriving some factual values on the idea that the person wants to live.|
Good point, but it seems to me that this leads to only very limited assumptions as to what values can be considered as universal values. Granted, we all want to live! But then we can say, "You shouldn't smoke." since it's obviously not of value to a long life. "You shouldn't eat junk food." etc... But now we seem to have a contradiction, since we've found values for people, which may disagree with those values -- "values without the valuer", it seems. Carried, farther, one could say, "Don't go bungy jumping -- it's too dangerous." or "Don't become a cop since they live hard, risky, lives." Factually, all these things may not be conducive to a long, healthy, life -- but that doesn't make them values, without the valuer.
Obviously, Tibor, you've put a lot more thought into this, than have I. I'll bow out and try to research it.