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Monday, June 3, 2013 - 5:07pmSanction this postReply
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Air tight. Thanks!


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Tuesday, June 4, 2013 - 8:35amSanction this postReply
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This fits in nicely with my article, Visualizing the Complex Relationship Between Truth and Falsehood.

Sam


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Post 2

Wednesday, June 5, 2013 - 7:41amSanction this postReply
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Yes, and there is certainly a difference between the context of knowledge -- his model -- that a child possesses about batteries, and the context of knowledge that exists about batteries in general, independent of a child refining his model of reality.

It seems to me that most adjustments to the general state of knowledge brought about by new effort and discoveries are refinements and improvements: evolutionary. Revolutionary new knowledge is more rare; that is part of what makes it revolutionary. Round earth vs. flat earth. Heliocentric solar system. Sandra van Nieuwland. Ooooops. Strike that.

I think it is indeed a misnomer to characterize all 'new knowledge' with the round earth/flat earth paint brush.

60 Minutes did a piece this week on smart prosthetics, artificially articulated human hands directly controlled by sensors implanted into(onto)the brain. Clearly evolutionary knowledge, built up over time. But ... Jesus. The most amazing stuff. Revolutionary, even. But what knowledge does this negate? Only the belief that those without hands will forever never be able to ... have hands.

regards,
Fred



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Wednesday, June 5, 2013 - 8:45amSanction this postReply
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Even the classic case of the black swan only validates inductive reasoning.  After all, they called it a black swan, rather than giving it a new and different name of its own.  Moreover, we did not stop calling white swans by their previous name. 


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Post 4

Monday, June 10, 2013 - 1:13amSanction this postReply
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Let's define our terms. "Knowledge," according to the classical definition, is "justified, true belief." If a belief isn't true, then it doesn't constitute knowledge. Since the child's belief that the batteries will work is false, it does not constitute knowledge.

Objectivism has a slightly different definition. Rand defines "knowledge" as "a mental grasp of a fact(s) of reality, reached either by perceptual observation or by a process of reason based on perceptual observation." Using this definition, the child's belief that the batteries will work is not a mental grasp of a fact of reality, because it is not a fact of reality that the batteries will work.

So, by both these definitions, the child's belief that the batteries will work does not constitute knowledge. His recognition that the batteries do not work does constitute knowledge. So it is not that new knowledge invalidates old knowledge, but rather that new knowledge invalidates old belief(s).

When we discover that we've erred, we do not say, "I knew it was true, but I now know it to be false." We say, "I thought it was true, but I now see that it's false."

New knowledge does not invalidate old knowledge, because if the old idea is false, then it does not constitute knowledge. New knowledge invalidates old beliefs or old ideas by showing that they were false or mistaken.



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Monday, June 10, 2013 - 1:37amSanction this postReply
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Bill that was the most concise and well thought out accurate definition I think I have ever witnessed!
Brilliant!

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Monday, June 10, 2013 - 9:23amSanction this postReply
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Stepping away from the issue of new knowledge versus old knowledge for just a moment, take a look at rationality. When we are talking about human nature we are saying we have a kind of capacity. And we can define rationality within that context. But we also know that as individuals we aren't all the same in our use of the faculty. Within the context of engaging our rationality we understand that it is a skill and even an art form. And that takes us to a third context in which we can understand rationality - psychology.

By its nature rationality is volitional and we can use that as a point to delve deeper. Our choice-points, those instances of time where we could choose to focus our flow of consciousness differently, are there in every second we are awake. They are at the very border of conscious and subconscious activity. And it would be simplistic to think that we choose to think or we choose to blank-out and that was the end of the story. In fact, it is usually more like we choose to approach or retreat. Approach is to embrace - to accept - to get more deeply into the appropriate awareness of something. Different kinds of activities are best suited to different kinds of awareness. The sharp, purpose driven, open-to-the-unknown kind focus is best suited to solving a business problem, whereas a softer focus that constitutes a melting down of any barriers to experiencing the emotions and feelings and sensations would be the choice for sexual activity. Focus is variable, and it is purpose driven. Is a person choosing to focus in a way that avoids or dilutes an experience, or acts to blind him to an aspect of reality? Or is the person focusing in a way that maximizes the experience and/or the function that serves his life in that instance for that context?

Given that, let me get back to Bill's distinction between knowledge and belief. Many of my beliefs from childhood have since been shown to be false - they were not knowledge. But from the inside, at the time, some of them FELT like knowledge. This is the about "certainty". My sense of certainty is that it is a combination of emotion and reason. And if we are good at reasoning, our certainty will be an emotional state that is a reflection of the reasoning about a belief. It is as if we have trained this one corner of our mind to watch our mental processes and to keep score for each belief. Other people, who are not skilled at reasoning, or who avoid focus on many issues, or who mistake emotions or feelings for reason... they will end up having a kind of false certainty - an emotional reflection conjured up to support a poor process. Instead of a kind of independent score keeper they have something that amplifies impulses to avoid, to be defensive, to not know - and under the pretense of certainty in a belief.

But no matter whether we are behaving like whim worshipers or Ayn Rand herself, we use our sense of certainty to fuel activities. If we are rational, our actions flow from reason, but the strength behind the actions will have to come from emotions. And certainty (or uncertainty) is one source (or absence) of such a fuel.

My personal decision that a given belief is knowledge is a different thing than whether, objectively, that belief IS knowledge, ie, is a true fact of reality. My only access to reality is by means of reasoning regarding perceptual data. Then I have to decide what degree of certainty to apply. Notice that I can apply degree x, but my subconscious might give it degree y. We have all probably experienced a situation where our reason said such and such was a certain truth, but that our emotional response was doubt.

From this psychological, as opposed to epistemological, point of view, we only have beliefs and we decide which of them are knowledge by our level of certainty. Reasoning about our reasoning. From this psychological perspective, whether new knowledge replaces or invalidates old knowledge probably relates to a change in certainty, or requires us, as an individual, to act differently. From this personal viewpoint, my learning that chairs are made of atoms won't change how I use them or my certainty about how to use a chair, or what defines a chair. So, in that instance it does not invalidate my old knowledge. If I were to discover a sub-set of chairs that were fake - that they were stage props - and that it was dangerous to sit on them, that would change, at least temporarily and in certain contexts, my certainty, and how I acted.

I notice that in Joe's article he says, "...you aren't making a statement about the wood burning, but a statement about your present belief." That alludes to this distinction between psychology and epistemology where they must not contradict each other, yet they are different perspectives.

In the issue of the child who takes old batteries of the right size, puts them into the new toy and discovers that they don't work, I'd say that what we have here isn't old knowledge, but rather a hole in his knowledge needs - a piece of ignorance. He didn't have a category of information about the life of batteries. He didn't know they could die. That is different from a belief that they work forever. He acted "as if" they could live forever. It was an implicit assumption - meaning that we create this false belief and impute it him based upon his actions. But it might never have been in his mind. In this case it was not old knowledge being replace by new knowledge, but new knowledge being added to old knowledge. (In a different example, it could easily have been new knowledge replacing an incorrect belief.)

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Post 7

Monday, June 10, 2013 - 2:45pmSanction this postReply
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Steve:

Related to babies and batteries somewhat. Kids with Williams Syndrome often attain speech late, but when they start talking, it is sometimes in complete sentences. Funny illustration: child at doctors office waiting room. He's playing with a desk lamp switch, making it go on and off. The nurse/receptionist quietly pulls the plug out, lamp stops going on and off in response to the switch. Child's first words ever, "This fucking thing doesn't work."

Amazingly accurate usage of the language, but notoriously unaware of proper context for longshoreman's language.

The child was building his model of how the world works. His old model include 'switches' and was accurate, as far as it goes, but his model didn't include 'power cords' or 'electricity.' A child -- any of us -- does not start out with a grasp of all the knowledge in the world. We start out trying, and building our models, and when the models no longer work, we break them up a little, or extend them, or refine them, until they work again. And eventually, we end up with 'good enough' models of how the world works -- usable in our contexts, even if they are incomplete. Eventually, our models are extended in the areas of 'knowledge acquisition' -- and we can build models of new entities from instructions only -- from access to information about knowledge that we have not experienced first hand as we do as infants.

But not necessarily. We build sufficient models for our functional contexts, and sometimes, grossly incomplete models are good enough for our wants and needs, and we spend time instead on building other models of interest to us.

Like, most people driving a car. Or, surviving in economies. We drive and function in economies with only the crudest of understanding of either of them-- with barely no knowledge of them at all. And when we are forced to ponder either, we assume that those claiming to understand them actually do.

But a mechanic either fixes your car or he doesn't. If he made it worse, we wouldn't assume they really understood our car much better than we did.

We only do that with economists.

regards,
Fred



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Sunday, June 16, 2013 - 3:28amSanction this postReply
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Thanks for the comments, everyone.

Fred, I don't like viewing knowledge as a "model" of the world, because any change to that knowledge invalidates the existing model. One of the points I was trying to make is that we understand reality by identifying causal links or finding other principles. When we discover a knew causal link, it doesn't invalidate the old ones. We gain knowledge, we don't lose it. Some of our conclusions may have been wrong, but those are separate and distinct from the identifications. Describing all of this as a "model" treats it as one giant indistinguishable blob that is constantly being proven wrong.

Bill, while your answer may be literally true, I think it misses the key issue. Saying knowledge can never be overturned because that would mean it technically wasn't knowledge doesn't say anything. It could mean that you think the prior held beliefs were overturned, but not technically knowledge. Or it could mean that you think they weren't overturned at all.

One example that comes up frequently is Newtonian science vs. Einstein's relativity. Was the Newtonian science wrong? Was it completely invalidated by the new information? Is science always being completely invalidated with every new idea? Or is it possible that our knowledge is contextual and that it was true within the context it was developed, and more information doesn't necessarily invalidate it all.

Similarly, when a child finds out a table is made of things called molecules or atoms, is all of his knowledge of tables wiped out and he is rebuilding? Or is this just additional information that supplements his prior information?

So the question wasn't whether a former believe was technically knowledge. The question is whether it was overturned in the first place.

This topic came up a few times related to The Logic Leap. Can induction be performed in a way that never leads to mistakes? It seems to argue that it can. But that argument jumps right into this discussion of whether knew knowledge overturns old. By trying to argue that properly derived knowledge is so contextual that it can never be overturned, they're stuck arguing that the child was not incorrect that the battery would make his toy go. He was correct in some context. Unfortunately, not in the context he was acting it.



Post 9

Sunday, June 16, 2013 - 8:29amSanction this postReply
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Fred,

I think there is a good use for unspecialized models (primitive, rudimentary "understandings") by rational actors interacting on freeways or in economies. Great point about car mechanics vs. economics "experts", by the way! But I'm not sure that this prior benefit of having a rough model extrapolates up to the pinnacle of scientific discovery. People at the pinnacle need more than a mere model, they need a true understanding (i.e., actual knowledge). Otherwise, you get a Krugman or a Reich.

While it's fine for laymen to rely on models, it is not fine for experts to rely on them -- which is kind of "ballsy" for me to say out loud.


Steve,
And it would be simplistic to think that we choose to think or we choose to blank-out and that was the end of the story. In fact, it is usually more like we choose to approach or retreat. Approach is to embrace - to accept - to get more deeply into the appropriate awareness of something. Different kinds of activities are best suited to different kinds of awareness. The sharp, purpose driven, open-to-the-unknown kind focus is best suited to solving a business problem, whereas a softer focus that constitutes a melting down of any barriers to experiencing the emotions and feelings and sensations would be the choice for sexual activity.
Holy cow, that was insightful! I had never heard of the volitional choice to modulate one's focus to varying degrees described with such illumination. And besides that, you just diagnosed the main mental difference between liberals and others: liberals melt logical or factual barriers to emotion, in order to be consumed by their feelings (because that can be fun) -- a kind of a retreat back to "the Id"; and others keep logical and factual barriers in place in order to remain open to understanding the unknown (in order to learn how to live well) -- a kind of approach toward the marriage of the Ego with the Superego.

I, however, do not think that knowledge is a certain kind of a belief (e.g., to be seen as justified and true) about the world. Psychological certainty is a certain kind of a belief about the world, but it is not necessarily knowledge. You describe the interplay of epistemology with psychology, explaining how we get better at adapting our motivational psychology to the epistemological reality: old certainties get thrown out for newer ones. I agree that we shed our primitive psychological certainties as we get more mature -- but that is not the same as shedding knowledge.

What Bill said is literally true -- knowledge is absolute, and therefore does not admit of "degrees". There can be various degrees of "psychological certainty", but there are no various degrees of knowledge (knowledge is only either real, or it is a transient figment of one's current imaginations). But like Joe said, this might miss the point.

Ed


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Sunday, June 16, 2013 - 9:24amSanction this postReply
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Ed,

Thank you for the kind words on my description of volition. :-)
------------

I don't think we disagree on the issue of knowledge vs belief. I said, My personal decision that a given belief is knowledge is a different thing than whether, objectively, that belief IS knowledge, ie, is a true fact of reality. I am agreeing that knowledge is absolute in the sense that it is true or not no matter what anyone thinks. Say that two people have contradictory beliefs about something. One of them may be right in their belief. If so, they hold some knowledge. But they both may THINK that they hold knowledge.

Knowledge can't really exist outside of the mind. We can put it down on a piece of paper, but without a human mind to read it, it is just black marks on paper. When it is taken up into a mind from the paper it becomes a concept, and the person might accept it as a belief. And in doing so, they think they have knowledge. They will have a degree of certainty regarding the belief being knowledge and the degree of certainty might be warranted or not. Someone else might pick up that paper, get the concept, disagree with it, and now hold a belief that is false - but they think they have added knowledge to their mental storehouse.

I didn't mean to say that we "shed knowledge" or that new knowledge invalidates old knowledge. Because I agree with what Bill wrote. What I meant to say is that, on occasion, what we BELIEVED to be knowledge, but really wasn't, is replaced by a new belief that we consider to be knowledge.

Post 11

Sunday, June 16, 2013 - 9:49amSanction this postReply
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Okay, Steve.

This is dangerous, but I'm about to share something merely from memory (without looking it up to double-check that I've got my facts straight). In an unrelated debate about the Philosophy of Mind, I remember one side of the debate accused the other of making a "category mistake" or "category error" -- or something like that. It is like ancient scholastic philosophers confusing thought with things. Some things have to be kept separate from other things, or else understanding breaks down. As a note to myself and others, here is a brainstorm of things that should be categorized into 2 groupings (so that further discussion will entail progress):

-knowledge
-certainty
-confidence
-belief
-error
-truth
-fact
-falsity

These 8 are not the same thing, to be sure. But what is at issue is that they are not even the same kind of things!

Ed


Post 12

Monday, June 17, 2013 - 2:22pmSanction this postReply
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Joseph:

I think I understand your criticism. In my description, there is a body of actual knowledge -- all that has been learned as true before our arrival here -- that is true independent of our awareness of that knowledge. The child in my example certainly did not have complete knowledge, or even, a full understanding of the knowledge that he did have("lamps are turned on via switches" which was true enough both before and after his new knowledge of electric cords and possibly even electricity, a long way from Maxwell's equations...)

We spend our lives, to a greater or lessor extent, acquiring as much as we ... can/want/wish of that knowledge, and apply it-- with little hope of acquiring it -all-. Perhaps the level of 'model' is what children do, before they have acquired the skills of generalized knowledge acquisition and at best extension(which is in apprentice form at about the time we graduate from university, ready to apply.)

But how many adults, when it comes to an automobile, interact with it on any other deeper level of understanding than their -model- of how it works, with no deep understanding of how it works in the least? Or especially, economies?

As much as we'd like to believe that as adults we fully understand/have deep knowledge of almost everything we are aware of, I don't think that is true in the least; the logistics of a finite life, 24 hrs in a day, the necessity to pick and choose, and a vast expanse of ever growing knowledge dictates to all of us, IMO, that we must pick and choose which areas of knowledge we have a deep understanding of, and which areas we still function as a child-- that is, with a model that is 'good enough' for us to function with in the given field-- for as deep as we travel in that field.

It is clearly possible to drive a car with next to no understanding at all of how it works. Or turn on the TV or Radio. Or use an I-Phone. Or turn on tap water and pour ourselves a glass of potable drinking water. Or flush a toilet. Or listen to a concert and enjoy it.

We have the potential to fully understand any knowledge; we don't have the capacity/bandwidth/lifetime to fully understand all knowledge; the body of new knowledge is growing faster than we are capable of acquiring and understanding old knowledge...except in lost episodes of Star Trek. And so, we model 'good enough' in some areas, and spackle off the deep corridors for another day.

And for sure, participate in economies, even as we don't fully understand them.

regards,
Fred



Post 13

Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 4:49amSanction this postReply
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JR: One example that comes up frequently is Newtonian science vs. Einstein's relativity. Was the Newtonian science wrong? Was it completely invalidated by the new information? Is science always being completely invalidated with every new idea? Or is it possible that our knowledge is contextual and that it was true within the context it was developed, and more information doesn't necessarily invalidate it all.
But what about phlogiston, which was overturned completely and is abandoned.  In fact it is curious, perhaps, that we still have "Aristotlean" philosophers but not phlogiston physicists.  Alternatively, what about the model of electricity is a fluid?  It worked with the Leyden Jar, but we gave that up for little balls wth minus signs whirling around the nucleus and being shared along a wire... and here we are again with magneto-hydrodynamics, considering "flow" models. 

Of course, those items of knew knowledge do not invalidate your original essay.


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Post 14

Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 7:16amSanction this postReply
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Michael:

Wasn't it you who once pointed out the researcher at UGA(I think)with his 'meander' theory? His research/observations were that in nature and even manmade constructs, like knowledge application/acquisition, there appears to be a universal strategy of 'meander' -- cut and try and cut again and try again; not a straight line to the sea or down a hill or especially up a hill, but rather, a 'meander.'

Plants, root systems, rivers, and apparently, mankind constructs such as corporations, business enterprises, committees, use a surprisingly similar strategy in many instances.

We can choose to look at those examples like meanders; look at the Mississipi river delta, there are plenty of examples of past paths that were meandered out of existence by new paths.

Do we fault the Mississipi for not proceeding directly to the mouth of the river without meanders?

There is a certain view especially of STEM, mainly from outside of STEM, that it is an activity that solves well specified problems, with inputs, laws, equations, and precise answers. And so, historical knowledge acquisition should look like a clean sheet of paper with orderly steps from what is known , applied to an orderly set of laws and equations, to a clean result.

But whiteboards have erasers. Trashcans are full of crumpled up papers. Even STEM -- and maybe especially STEM -- meanders. Advances do not proceed in a linear fashion, always precisely aimed at the maximum gradient on our way to new knowledge. Locally, we sometimes slip downhill, enter cul de sacs and have to back out.

Progress naturally 'meanders.' So it is with the acquisition of new knowledge, I think. It is almost a law; we can at best guess at the direction of steepest gradient towards future knowledge, because to have an accurate assessment of that gradient would require already having the new knowledge. Faced with that restriction, a scheme to address that is to meander and assess and re-meander and re-assess... lather, rinse, repeat.

regards,
Fred

Post 15

Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 1:56pmSanction this postReply
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'Twas not I, but 'tis interesting, indeed.  Kuhn (and yes, the post modernists following Feuerabend) criticism academic science for presenting a narrative that science achieves knowledge by following a cookbook process called "The Scientific Method."  True enough, it is the proof, but is not the process.

Textbooks do not present the actual history of progress in science. They just say: "Here is what we know. Do this experiment to demonstrate it."  That is how students learn to fudge.  (I did.)  You know the intended results. You produce them and get out of the lab quickly.  At best, you create a report that "explains" your "experimental error" on the assumption that the textbook is right. 


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Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 8:55amSanction this postReply
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The other lesson from the universe, from nature, and its meanders is, there isn't just one meander; there isn't just one solution-- one root, one branch, one leave. One course to the sea. One fiber in a tree-trunk. One star in the sky. One single point of universal failure, all our eggs in the basket of one idea. Strong, resilient, lasting-in-nature systems are parallel and redundant, not singular and monolithic and dare I say, Totalitarian, as would be any form of National Socialism.

That is what is at the heart of federalism and 50 state experiments running in parallel with a loose, not tightly coupled in detail oversight by a federal government that mostly looks outward, not inward.

A kind of truth that the Universe is forever mutely trying to patiently show us, and we have of late meandered into a national cultural cul de sac, and it is long past time to back out.

regards,
Fred

(Edited by Fred Bartlett on 6/22, 8:56am)


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Post 17

Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 11:08amSanction this postReply
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...50 state experiments running in parallel...
With those experiments constrained by the federal govt. only by the key principles of law: Equality under the law, objective law, due process, etc. But it goes farther. Let the counties and local communities go their own way as much as possible under the states' constitutions instead of having a state's legislators impose their idea of what should be. And so it would go down to neighborhood levels, and then to families and then to individuals. It is a prescription for voluntary association, for individual choice, for maximum freedom with the opportunity for obtaining the values of community, but under an umbrella of national protection. It supports a benevolent and optimistic view of human activity as opposed to a control-freak's pessimistic view of society as a source of chaos and danger unless controlled in every aspect in advance. It is geared for evolution of a society driven by each individual choosing what is better... again and again - as the very mode of existence. And not the childish view that some set of elites can choose for everyone, in advance, and then lock in one way, forever.

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Post 18

Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 12:26pmSanction this postReply
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Here is the concept incarnate, in 'a' bridge cable from a famous suspension bridge in San Francisco. Look closely. It is not 'a' cable. It is 22,000+ cables in parallel. That is what makes that 'a' cable so string and resilient.

Now, imagine holding up a bridge with just one cable.

"United We Stand" Not "United It Stands"


We;ve known this principle for a long time; this is from GW Bridge. "a" cable:



I swear, I can see local economies, state economies, and the aggregate of all such in that picture of a strong, resilient manmade construct. Why would we ever think it was a good design idea to replace that with 'the' economy, like the Soviet Union? That experiment already long failed, there is no pressing need for us to repeat the failure. And yet we insist.

Look closely at The Sears Tower. It is not 'a' tower; it is 10 towers in parallel, like they tell you at the tour: "Like 10 cigarettes stacked into a bunch.". That is what makes it strong, and resilient, like we wish our economies, plural, would be.




Now, freshly take a look at the United States, plural, of America, and re-interpret what 'federalism' means, and what the danger to all of us is represented by the current trend towards a Totalitarian 'it' -- a singular 'the economy' dominated by a National Government...



regards,
Fred





(Edited by Fred Bartlett on 6/22, 12:33pm)


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