RoR: Forum

This book looks like a worthwhile read and the review appears competent and informative with respect to content, but the review could use formatting changes to space the paragraphs for easier reading.

MEM wrote:

Of particular interest to capital-O Objectivists and quite relevant here on RoR is the examination of the Motive Fallacy. Basically, one’s motives for an assertion are totally irrelevant. Whyte examines this error from other perspectives in the chapter called "Shut Up!" President Bush might have the basest or the highest motives for the invasion of Iraq. Neither case has any bearing on the effectiveness of the war. Good causes have been fought for the wrong reasons, and vice versa. What counts is the truth: empirical facts about the war and logically constructed explanations for them.

Given that the author values life, I would hope the author would appreciate the need to end arguments that clearly go nowhere, hence the value of the phrase "Shut Up!" when rightly applied.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 9/03, 7:40am)

Post 1

Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - 9:52am

Michael,

I've put the book on my Amazon wish list and will end up getting it - Thanks!

I probably shouldn't say anything till I've read it... But, sometimes motive is valid to go after. Sometimes it is the elephant in the room and all the arguments are just words chosen to NOT ever say "elephant." I don't believe it helps to let evasion get a free ride. For example, when debating a religious person and they make a wide variety of arguments for theism that are all couched as if they were logic, the proper response is to go right for that blind-faith-in-scripture elephant and the underlying dishonesty of arguing all the other 'reasons' as if they were the cause or justification that the person really holds.

I look forward to reading the book - I hope it has a section on intellectual honesty - that is an area where I think it can be valid to go after motives.

Post 2

Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - 10:21am

Steve, I agree completely with Post 1. Sanction!

Post 3

Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - 12:49pm

It is also on my wish list... and, sort of aside but related, just acquired my copy of Deirdre N. McCloskey's The Bourgeois Virtues, Ethics for an age of commerce, which, in its fashion, exposes bogus arguments regarding business - especially of politicians and their ilk... am anticipating good reading for this and the 'Crimes' book...

Post 4

Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - 3:00pm

This is a quasi-related, somewhat tangential "vent" but I wanted to voice my recent anti-Repugnantcan sentiment without starting a whole thread:

I hate how the official McCain signs at the RNC have collectivist and nationalistic slogans. Paraphrased, these official signs have something like "Put Country First" on one side and "Self-Sacrifice & Service" on the other. Yuck.

Hitler could have written those slogans found on the official McCain signs. If Obama's sign ought to read: Communism you can believe in, then McCain's ought to be just as honest and read: Fascism you can truly believe in.

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 9/03, 3:01pm)

Post 5

Thursday, September 4, 2008 - 7:44am

I hate how the official McCain signs at the RNC have collectivist and nationalistic slogans. Paraphrased, these official signs have something like "Put Country First" on one side and "Self-Sacrifice & Service" on the other. Yuck.

Ed, I mostly agree. But I do want McCain himself to "Put Country First" if elected President. That will be his job. ("... a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.") As for you and me and most others, however, it's a platitude. What exactly could you or I do to "Put Country First"?

Post 6

Thursday, September 4, 2008 - 8:18am

Merlin asked:

What exactly could you or I do to "Put Country First"?

Merlin,
That question was answered by the other slogan, "Self-Sacrifice & Service".
Thanks,
Glenn

Post 7

Thursday, September 4, 2008 - 8:40am