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Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 11:55pmSanction this postReply
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I don't think being rational or emotional is gender related, but I see a cultural bias over many centuries, from the time of Antigone and before. Plato was radical in his suggestion that women could be political leaders over men. Aristotle immediately reversed that notion and said it is natural for men to rule over women. Both men and women, even today, tend to agree with Aristotle. Even Rand said she would not vote for a woman for President.

 

Women are going to college, but it's men who designed and built the buildings, paved the roads, designed and built and maintained the automobiles in the parking lots. Men maintain the grounds and clean the buildings. One has to look around a lot to find something to which women contributed. It was a man who invented and perfected the sewing machine. It was a man who invented and developed the stoves on which they cook. The best cooks in the world are men, and the best tailors in the world are men.


Even Ayn Rand, a rare female philosopher, believes a woman's role is to surrender to a man.

Nietzsche was affected by the women who dominated his life and sissyfied him. His superman philosophy was largely a reaction against that. Hemmingway was also alfa-male to offset the way he was treated when he was young, by a mother who put him in dresses sometimes.

Aristotle went by what he observed and called it natural. He observed that slavery was all around him during his time, so he called it natural. He was wrong. We can't always go by what is a trend, even if it is a long time trend. We have seen women who can be political leaders, and we see many women, although not as many as men, becoming mathematicians and scientists in fields like physics. I think it is possible that women could become more dominant in these fields if given a chance.

 

Other than childbirth, I don't think there are too many things women can't do if they want to and are given the opportunity and proper nurturing to do. And, I think they should be allowed to do what they want and have the ability to do.

 

I respect women who are in traditionally male roles and are comfortable. I may have problems seeing women drinking beer from the bottle and spiting and cussing. It's unlady-like, but I guess that's my problem, not theirs. I have worked with women at a casting foundry where I had to train them to work on large grinding machines which were dirty and dangerous. They had to either do this or get laid-off. Well, at first they were very awkward, like girls trying to throw a football, but then they became pretty good, as good as the males and better. However, as soon as they had the chance, they choose to go back to the airconditioned waxroom and office jobs.

I worked with two different female purchasing agents when I drove a truck for the steel foundry. We'd go together to purchase supplies for the company and bring them back in the truck. One helped me load and unload, but the other wore heals and remained in the cab while I did the physical work. She thought conformity to the woman's role was important. I had more respect for the other one.

I accept that some women just want to be receptionists and secretaries or office assistants, but I like women who don't mind working in the warehouse, who don't worry about their makeup so much that they can't do anything but look pretty and maybe answer telephones or shuffle papers while doing something on the computer.

 

I especially dislike women who tell me how full of it I am but want to avoid me saying I am such an unpleasant person. 

 

I do think there are differences in thinking between women and men because of their different bodies and experiences, but I do still think they are rational and as human as men and deserve the same rights. I believe, for example, women in the military should be allowed in ground combat jobs if they meet the standards.

 


Post 1

Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 2:53pmSanction this postReply
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Why do I feel that this post is a trap for me?

Was it something I said?

;-)

Ed

Post 2

Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 2:58pmSanction this postReply
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It's an attempt to see if the 'other' side of you has anything to say.....;-)

Post 3

Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 6:13pmSanction this postReply
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Alright, I can't stay quiet ...

===================
I may have problems seeing women drinking beer from the bottle and spiting and cussing. It's unlady-like, but I guess that's my problem, not theirs.
===================

I like a 'fluid' gal that can adapt to the context. Not some priss who's constantly worried about being "unlady-like." If it's a Saturday softball game, I have no qualms with a female pitcher who's spitting, cussing, and "drinking beer from the bottle" (what's wrong with THAT, anyway?).

Now, if it's dinner at The MGM Mirage, and home-girl shows up in a tube-top, flip-flops, and spandex biker shorts; complete with a hiked-up whale-tail; and she's chewing tobacco and spitting into an old, rusty, coffee can -- then, then, ... well ... then she just hurt her chances with me ... somewhat.

Let's just say that I'm not as concerned with as many of the little things about folks -- as Ole Saint Nick here appears to be.

;-)

Ed


Post 4

Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 6:16pmSanction this postReply
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What I really meant to say above was -- even showing class, is contextual.

Ed
[an awfully classy guy, when the situation calls for it]

Post 5

Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 6:39pmSanction this postReply
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Would you, like Rand, not vote for a woman for Presdent? Do you think women should be allowed in ground combat jobs in the military?

What do some of the women here think of this lead post?

bis bald,

Nick


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Post 6

Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 6:47pmSanction this postReply
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As the old saying goes - the only person fit to rule is the one who must be dragged kicking and screaming to the throne.....  hence, in today's world, any female who strives to gain the occupancy of the office is as corrupt as the males so seeking  - so no, would not vote for her, any more than would vote for the males....


As for the military - if any female wants to, and can physically so do, go for it.....

(Edited by robert malcom on 7/29, 6:49pm)


Post 7

Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 7:27pmSanction this postReply
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What the Rev'rend said.

Ed

Post 8

Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 7:58pmSanction this postReply
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As for the military - if any female wants to, and can physically so do, go for it.....


Well, unfortunately, there are laws aganst it at the moment. Would you work within the system to change the laws, even if it means voting for someone who reflects your views?


Post 9

Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 9:21amSanction this postReply
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There is evidence that different neuralogical formations between that of brains exposed to testosterone and those brains exposed to estrogen and progesterone, primarily in the 'middle brain' sections where emotions, memory, and habits become confluent to the person. Oddly, I've been exposed to estrogen probably since before I was born since I've always had not the same issues of 'emotional' communication as most males, but I also think that much of the initial state of difference can alter over time due to the very nature of neurons themselves, being flexible and constantly rerouting to the presences of acquired datum. But, what has to be accepted is that on the whole, men and women do not actively seek to change such initial states, probably because of many reasons; mostly social in my opinion.

So, don't expect Joe Mechanic to become emotionally aware as Susie Homemaker if Joe is too old or too unwilling to allow such neural changes. :)

In other news, race is a myth according to latest study of the human genome... ^_^

-- Bridget
(Edited by Bridget Armozel
on 7/30, 9:23am)


Post 10

Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 9:59amSanction this postReply
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I recognize your authority to speak on this issue, Bridget. You have a unique and interesting perspective. I hesitate to ask you more about it. Please feel free to speak on it, or not, as you wish.

bis bald,

Nick


Post 11

Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 10:04amSanction this postReply
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Well, there's better sources out there than me. I'm mostly proxyin' what they said, but I also add my own views on it, primarily from the standpoint of neuralogy.

But, what I can say is that boys today are not given the option to emote anymore. Not because men ought not to emote, but rather than this is this 'masculine mystique' attached to being a man anymore. And so, men can't cry if they lose someone they loved or were fond of. Men can't be friendly and social. And so on. o_O And I think that makes the life of a man today more hostile than that of a woman. I believe there was a study that indicated that too [higher homocide, highschool dropout, and etc negative behavior/consequence rates].

-- Bridget

Post 12

Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 11:46amSanction this postReply
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Women are going to college, but it's men who designed and built the buildings, paved the roads, designed and built and maintained the automobiles in the parking lots. Men maintain the grounds and clean the buildings. One has to look around a lot to find something to which women contributed. It was a man who invented and perfected the sewing machine. It was a man who invented and developed the stoves on which they cook. The best cooks in the world are men, and the best tailors in the world are men.

Very true, and we do all these just to make the woman we love happy!!!
CD


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Post 13

Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 2:17pmSanction this postReply
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What do some of the women here think of this lead post?


If I'm going to the beach, I'll stuff my face with ice cream, scream and laugh in the waves, and play beach volleyball. If I'm going to the symphony, I'll go formal and have perfect posture. If I'm watching a martial arts tournament, I'll yell out pointers, get gritty, and cuss. My life contains a myriad of interests that, put together, is a unique combination. So often the only person that can guide me is me, and it changes, depending on the situation.

My viewpoint isn't to vote for something based on gender or sex roles, because I know it will piss me off if someone didn't vote for me because I was a woman and it would be "unfeminine" of me to lead. Being female is not something I want to be penalized for. Nor is it something I'd like to be applauded for. So hell yeah, I'd vote for a woman president if I agreed with her, same as if I was voting for a man. What matters to me is the person.

Post 14

Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 2:33pmSanction this postReply
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Good for you, Jenna. What do you think about age differences?

bis bald,

Nick


Post 15

Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 2:36pmSanction this postReply
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Well put, Jenna. Beautiful.

Erica


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Post 16

Monday, July 31, 2006 - 8:39amSanction this postReply
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One has to look around a lot to find something to which women contributed.
Huh?? Just look at yourself. Without women, there will be no men.


Post 17

Monday, July 31, 2006 - 8:48amSanction this postReply
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What do you think about age differences?


I don't vote for people based on age either... I've met young people who were wise, and seniors who weren't. It depends on the person.

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Post 18

Monday, July 31, 2006 - 9:42amSanction this postReply
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"One has to look around a lot to find something to which women contributed."
Huh?? Just look at yourself. Without women, there will be no men.

That's funny! And without men, there would be no women. But to view women's role as solely or primarily mothers (and housewives) is what Objectivists have been opposed to from the very beginning. Shortly after the publication of Atlas Shrugged, Betty Friedan's The Feminine Mystique made its appearance, and Objectivists were quick to endorse it. Friedan pointed to psychological problems women experienced from lack of opportunity to pursue productive and fulfilling careers outside the home. The book was a landmark study of a social ill - a clarion call to women's liberation from domestic servitude - and it marked the beginning of the feminist movement, which unfortunately has taken a turn for the worse in recent years. But, not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, one should not forget its original goal: allowing women to choose careers commensurate with their talents and abilities.

- Bill

Post 19

Monday, July 31, 2006 - 9:56amSanction this postReply
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It is true that Objectvists defend equal rights, generally. However, it is a little inconsistent that Rand said she wouldn't vote for a woman for President and that she thinks the role of a woman is to surrender to a man. Do you think she was wrong about this?

Jenna, I was making a pass at you, asking you, in a subtle way, if you would date an older man. Be gentle.

bis bald,

Nick 


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