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Post 80

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 12:29pmSanction this postReply
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Kurt,

Teresa:
1)  I am arguing as a devil's advocate - I want to see how strong the counter-arguments are ...
Well Kurt, since you asked, here's "how strong the counter-arguments are":

=========================================
There is only one antidote to racism: the philosophy of individualism and its politico-economic corollary, laissez-faire capitalism.

No political system can establish universal rationality by law (or by force). But capitalism is the only system that functions in a way which rewards rationality and penalizes all forms of irrationality, including racism.

A fully free, capitalist system has not yet existed anywhere. But what is enormously significant is the correlation of racism and political controls in the semi-free economies of the 19th century. Racial and/or religious persecutions of minorities stood in inverse ratio to the degree of a country's freedom. Racism was strongest in the more controlled economies, such as Russia and Germany -- and weakest in England, the then freest country of Europe.

It is capitalism that gave mankind its first steps toward freedom and a rational way of life. It is capitalism that broke through national and racial barriers, by means of free trade. It is capitalism that abolished serfdom and slavery in all the civilized countries of the world. It is the capitalist North that destroyed the slavery of the agrarian-feudal South in the United States.

Such was the trend of mankind for the brief span of some hundred and fifty years.
The rise of collectivism reversed that trend.
When men began to be indoctrinated once more with the notion that the individual possesses no rights, that supremacy, moral authority and unlimited power belong to the group, and that a man has no significance outside his group -- the inevitable consequence was that men began to gravitate toward some group or another, in self-protection, in bewilderment and in subconscious terror.

It is thus that the theoreticians of collectivism, the "humanitarian" advocates of a "benevolent" absolute state, have led to the rebirth and the new, virulent growth of racism in the 20th century.

Today, that problem is growing worse -- and so is every form of racism. America has become race-conscious in a manner reminiscent of the worst days in the most backward countries of 19th century Europe. The cause is the same: the growth of collectivism and statism.

The growth of racism in a "mixed economy" keeps step with the growth of government controls. A "mixed economy" disintegrates a country into an institutionalized civil war of pressure groups, each fighting for legislative favors and special privileges at the expense of one another.

The existence of such pressure groups and of their political lobbies is openly and cynically acknowledged today. The pretense at any political philosophy, any principles, ideals or long-range goals is fast disappearing from our scene -- and it is all but admitted that this country is now floating without direction, at the mercy of a blind, short-range power-game played by various statist gangs, each intent on getting hold of a legislative gun for any special advantage of the immediate moment.

This accumulation of contradictions, of short-sighted pragmatism, of cynical contempt for principles, of outrageous irrationality, has now reached its climax in the new demands of the Negro leaders.

Instead of fighting against racial discrimination, they are demanding that racial discrimination be legalized and enforced. Instead of fighting against racism, they are demanding the establishment of racial quotas. Instead of fighting for "color-blindness" in social and economic issues, they are proclaiming that "color-blindness" is evil and that "color" should be made a primary consideration. Instead of fighting for equal rights, they are demanding special race privileges.

The only comment one can make about demands of that kind is, "By what right? -- By what code? -- By what standard?"

That absurdly evil policy is destroying the moral base of the Negroes' fight. Their case rested on the principle of individual rights. If they demand the violation of the rights of others, they negate and forfeit their own.

The "civil rights" bill, now under consideration in Congress, is another example of a gross infringement of individual rights. It is proper to forbid all discrimination in government-owned facilities and establishments: the government has no right to discriminate against any citizens. And by the very same principle, the government has no right to discriminate for some citizens at the expense of others. It has no right to violate the right of private property by forbidding discrimination in privately owned establishments.

No man, neither Negro nor white, has any claim to the property of another man. A man's rights are not violated by a private individual's refusal to deal with him. Racism is an evil, irrational and morally contemptible doctrine -- but doctrines cannot be forbidden or prescribed by law. Just as we have to protect a communist's freedom of speech, even though his doctrines are evil, so we have to protect a racist's right to the use and disposal of his own property. Private racism is not a legal, but a moral issue -- and can be fought only by private means, such as economic boycott or social ostracism.

In conclusion, I shall quote from an astonishing editorial in The N. Y. Times of August 4 [1963] -- astonishing because ideas of this nature are not typical of our age:
"But the question must be not whether a group recognizable in color, features or culture has its rights as a group. No, the question is whether any American individual, regardless of color, features or culture, is deprived of his rights as an American. If the individual has all the rights and privileges due him under the laws and the Constitution, we need not worry about groups and masses -- those do not, in fact, exist, except as figures of speech."
=========================================
From:
"Racism" (VOS, Ch 17, p 150-157)

Ed


Post 81

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 2:01pmSanction this postReply
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Suppose you were to say, "Blacks not allowed," or "Irish need not apply." In that case, you would be making it very clear. Some night clubs will not serve anyone over the age of 25, which is usually indicated on a sign at the entrance. Of course, it would be uneconomic for a business that is selling clothes or appliances or some other commonly used product to exclude a portion of the buying public. They would lose money if they did.


I would also like to add to that ethnic clubs that exclude memberships on the basis of ethnicity such as the Italian-American club or the Polish American club are literally saying "Non-Italians not allowed" or "Non-Polish need not apply for membership". This is discrimination on the basis of ethnic origin yet no one raises a stink about it. They are of course well within their rights to do so but if they are within their rights to do this then any business or free association of people must have the same equal rights to do the same. We can't pick and choose who gets to discriminate and who doesn't.

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Post 82

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 6:09pmSanction this postReply
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Kurt,

2)  I was referring to a shop hanging out a shingle on main street and not a private club.  There are various definitions of how your business functions that you define when you incorporate.

Right.  But why is that any of government's business?  You answer that question below:

3)  The government enforces your safety, protects you from theft, and enforces legal contracts.  In return, all it is asking as that you operate by straight forward principles.  By opening a "public" business, i.e. making goods available for public sale, you are contracting with them in essence.  You are saying "goods available for sale here" not "goods only for white people"

So if you're in business, there is no right to be wrong? 

 I respectfully disagree.  "Public contracts" are a fiction.  A business doesn't deal with "the public."  It deals with individuals, often selectively.  "Public" is a term used to describe government owned properties, not private properties.  

I've kicked out bums, drunks, and total mentals from my work place.  Why the law prohibits me from placing a placard in the window forbidding bums, drunks, and mentals from entering is because of the "public contract" ideology.  I am prohibited from being preemptively "selective."  I have, in essence, become a gimp of the government.  A "servant" to the public.  

I could use Bill's pizza delivery example, or the cab driver example to further illustrate "selective dealing" with regard to business.  I can't think of better examples, honestly.  

While I agree silly exclusions based solely on race can be horribly irrational, being rational isn't a prerequisite for starting a business.  Being stupid and wrong, while violating the rights of no-one isn't the government's business.

"Get out,"  is the rallying cry of the individual.


Post 83

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 7:28pmSanction this postReply
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Cheers, Teresa......

Post 84

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 9:33pmSanction this postReply
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I've seen signs in stores saying, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." That pretty much says it all.

- Bill

Post 85

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 10:18pmSanction this postReply
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I've seen signs in stores saying, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

What criminals! They should be forced to reverse their reserve, they should not have been "given" such a right to be "wrong," and if they refuse to quit refusing service to just everyone and/or anyone, then we should jail them or confiscate their business "privilege" to serve anyone! For "we" can "fix" personal morality with public legality! Unite, my Brothers, unite! All hail the power of the State to "fix" individuals! The Almighty and Benevolent State! Our new God, not in heaven, but on earth, Brothers -- a God on earth! Down with the recalcitrant individual!!!

;-)

Ed


Post 86

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 11:47pmSanction this postReply
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Ye sick, Ed - too much green tea, probably.......;-)

Post 87

Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 9:31amSanction this postReply
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Oh Rev' -- I wasn't "sick." I had just forgotten to take my "Man is an end in himself"-pill that morning.

Sorry all. I'll try harder to stay on schedule with my daily medications (meditations) from now on!

;-)

Ed


Post 88

Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 10:10amSanction this postReply
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You need a pill for that???  Hmmmmmmmmm......

Post 89

Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 11:16amSanction this postReply
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Rev'! You forgot to take your "Read-between-the-lines"-pill this morning, didn't you?

Clue:
The adequate understanding of my initially-described sentiment stems from that which is in (parentheses), not that found in "quotation marks."
 
Perhaps I should have used italics to highlight the true nature of what it was that I meant when I was speaking -- at least for the transiently un-astute or for those temporarily lacking in the requisite acumen. Please tell, oh Reverend, how many "cups" have you yet had today?

;-)

Ed


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Post 90

Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 4:33pmSanction this postReply
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Maybe a pint, but who cares?  Post 80 was kick ass, if ever there was.

Its one of those posts that sticks around, getting linked to time and again.

Bloody beautiful, Ed.  You should be getting paid for this.


Post 91

Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 10:40pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks so much for the appreciative feedback, Teresa!

You should be getting paid for this.
With public appreciation like that, I just might consider myself "overpaid" already!

;-)

Ed
["The applause of a single human being is of great consequence."--Samuel Johnson]



Post 92

Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 10:04amSanction this postReply
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Ed,

Just curious. When will you be coming out with your book on Thompson's Memorable Quotations? I have a place reserved for it right next to Bartlett's Familiar Quotations. If you ask Jeff Bezos of Amazon.com, I'm sure he'll be happy to offer them both as a package deal! ;)

- Bill

Post 93

Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 1:10pmSanction this postReply
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You mean ye not putting it beside H L Mencken's tome????  [prob a good idea - hard to top the ol boy's work...;-)]

(Edited by robert malcom on 7/25, 1:40pm)


Post 94

Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 6:14pmSanction this postReply
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You know, you guys really crack me up!

Thanks.

Ed
[aka: The "Quote"-inator (not to be confused with my lesser counterpart, The "Term"-inator)]

;-)

p.s. Don't get me started again! I'm highly susceptible to the positive effects of praise.


Post 95

Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 11:11pmSanction this postReply
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... Enter ... [silence] ... The Quote-inator! [applause]

While perusing my personal library, I came across a relatively new purchase entitled "Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity" by one John Stossel. On page 175 of this book a statement is printed at the top of the page "Myth: Antidiscrimination laws stop discrimination". Here's some of what followed:

"I became a consumer reporter because I don't like bullies."

"At first, as I've said, I thought businesses were the bullies. But then I realized that businesses depend on our voluntary cooperation, but lawyers get to use force. It's lawyers who are the bullies."

"In 1990, Congress passed the Americans with Disabilities Act, the ADA for short, with the best of intentions: to eliminate barriers--physical or legal--for the disabled. The ADA also created a nasty, extortion-like business for lawyers like Anthony Brady of Camden, New Jersey.

Brady partnered with a disabled person and filed dozens of lawsuits against small businesses, charging them with failure to obey the ADA."

"He sued a two-story strip club in Florida, on the grounds that it discriminated against people in wheelchairs because they couldn't get a lap dance upstairs."

"The club must pay damages--and Anthony Brady's legal fees, of course."

"Scores of businesses have been sued by law firms like Brady's. One suit, filed by William Tucker and Lawrence McGuiness, complained that the Peter Pan Diner in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, wasn't up to code. Among other things, they said the diner's bathroom had a paper dispenser that was a half inch higher than the ADA requires.

The renovations were cheap compared to what the restaurant had to pay to settle with Tucker and McGuiness: $3500. The lawyers should send some of that money to Washington to thank their shakedown partners in Congress."

And here's a doozie from Stossel's earlier book: "Give Me a Break":

"If anyone's helping the disabled, it's Dave and Donna Batelaan. The are disabled themselves. In Florida, they have a little store where they sell and repair wheelchairs. Since their customers are disabled, they didn't have a special handicapped parking sign. Guess what? They were sued--by a lawyer named Tony Brady, who runs a similar shakedown--I mean public-service law practice."

Heck, even Hooters got sued for gender discrimination! Although I suppose that if a man got fat enough, he'd have "hooters" too, I'm inclined to believe that witnessing him in a tight shirt may have an effect on my appetite (hurting food sales at Hooters). So, any way you look at it, it would've be a bad business decision to hire him.

;-)

Ed


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Post 96

Friday, July 27, 2007 - 7:47pmSanction this postReply
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Here's Penn and Teller: Bullshit video -- with guest star: Ed Hudgins, talking about the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBWso0S-aes

And what they're saying about the ADA validates what John Stossel was saying about it. Go figure?

;-)

Ed


Post 97

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 11:49pmSanction this postReply
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~ I really can't believe that in a supposedly O'ist-oriented forum this question was even brought up, nm that 97 responses fill the thread (ok; now 98.)
~ The question itself PRESUMES (like the question "When did you stop beating your wife?") an answer to another, more basic/comprehensive question: "All immoral behaviour should be legally penalized (aka 'illegal'), right?" with the answer "Yes, of course." --- Thence the titled question asks, in effect, "Why the exception here?"

     What O-ist supporter (regardless their disagreements with others) would give that answer "Yes" to the basic question I pointed out? Without that answer, what point asking the question?

LLAP
J:D


Post 98

Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 11:14amSanction this postReply
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~ I really can't believe that in a supposedly O'ist-oriented forum this question was even brought up, nm that 97 responses fill the thread (ok; now 98.)


It is in the "Dissent" part of the forum and posted by a non-objectivist.

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