About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadBack one pagePage 0Page 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Page 6Page 7Page 8Page 9Forward one pageLast Page


Post 100

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 10:17pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Ah, Casey,

MSK knows what I think of him!


Perhaps, I should post a notice to that fact?


Naaaaahhhh!!!!!


gw
 
 


Edit: Piss poor spelling!
Edit: It's an inside joke and your not supposed to get it!

(Edited by gary williams on 9/10, 10:19pm)


(Edited by gary williams on 9/10, 10:22pm)


Post 101

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 10:23pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Yes, I know, I have been delivering a long string of implicit and maybe not so implicit argumentum ad hominen against James Valliant. But read his book carefully, for isn't it essentially nothing more against the Brandens?

--Brant

(Edited by Brant Gaede on 9/10, 10:36pm)


Post 102

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 10:32pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Brant,

Proving that someone is engaging in ad hominem and proving that THEIR WORDS are not true and are contradicted by evidence, sometimes evidence provided by their own statements, is not an ad homimen attack but the refutation of that fallacy in action.


Post 103

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 10:41pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
In any case, I have retrieved my copy of The Passion of Ayn Rand and will post my understanding of Frank O'Connor's alleged alcoholism in a day or two based on the public record. I promise to be as honest and objective as I can.

--Brant


Post 104

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 10:44pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Jeff Perren beat you to it, Phil.

Sorry, no more free copies.

Casey


Post 105

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 11:03pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Taking my advice and taking to begging-for-a-bargain, huh, Jeff and Phil? Good for you.

Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 106

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 12:01amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Brant, I have endeavored to persuade the Hornet to reveal her secret identity...

Sanction: 23, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 23, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 23, No Sanction: 0
Post 107

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 11:47pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
O.k., then, would it still be cool if the Hornet was Mr. Valliant's wife?

Sanction: 14, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 14, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 14, No Sanction: 0
Post 108

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 12:34amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I really hate to rub it in, but I have a hot wife who can "lay it down" in defense of Rand.

Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 109

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 5:55amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
A brief point: a person can be an occasional drinker, a heavy drinker or even a problem drinker without being an alcoholic. A person uneducated and unknowledgeable about these differences can honestly come to an incorrect conclusion.

Post 110

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 6:17amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Absolutely correct, Bob. Having been all 4, I can attest to the validity of the categories.

Mrs. Valliant, I will choose a name other than MagHorny, or even just call you Mrs. Valliant.

I will not disrespect a man's wife in public on a personal-sexual level like that and no such disrespect was intended. Had I known, I would not have chosen that particular moniker. Sorry.

I will address my disagreements and comments to Casey and Mr. Valliant later today.

Michael


Post 111

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 7:40amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Maybe we should address James Valliant as Mr. Hornet?

--Brant


Post 112

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 10:46amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Here is Barbara Branden's e-Mail to me about Frank O'Connor's alleged alcoholism. I didn't want to publish the last paragraph for it isn't apropos, but she wants me to and I didn't want to lose permission or spend several days going back and forth with her on this. Please note that she wrote that paragraph before the recent spate of posts by Linz on this thread so she wasn't originally replying to those. I don't read all of Linz's posts so I do not know which posts she had in mind when she wrote this. In any case, Barbara is no longer a member of SOLO so there won't be any follow-up posts by her through me on that part of her letter. I am not going to be Barbara's go-between reference SOLO. This is ad hoc. That doesn't mean I won't put something on SOLO by her in the future (as anyone might also do) as quote or paraphrase as appropriate to a discussion.

(There are actually two e-Mails, the above refers to the first one. The second is in my following post.)

Within a day or two I will post my thoughts on all this (the alleged alcoholism) and I will not read any more on SOLO until I do. I don't know how much of Barbara's letter is already part of the public record, but now it all is. (Several minor typos were corrected by me.)
_____________________
_____________________

10/09/05 05:00 MST
______________

Brant, if you have questions about PASSION, you are always welcome to ask me about them. I say this because I saw your comments about Frank and his drinking. I did not say he was an alcoholic when the collective was reading ATLAS. It happened much later, only beginning in the final years of my relationship with Ayn. And a number of people are fully aware of it, including the Blumenthals and Elayne Kalberman (and Barbara Weiss, who was Ayn's secretary in her last years, but who has since died.) Also very aware of it is a sculptor friend of Joan Blumenthal's (and mine) who lives in New York and, himself an alcoholic, was Frank's drinking buddy in bars.

It was easy not to be aware of Frank's excessive drinking. He did it mostly in his studio, where he was alone -- and where the piles of empty bottles were found after his death. And he did not grow loud or raucous when he drank; he simply became quieter, more withdrawn, and usually fell asleep or went into the bedroom to sleep. Both Elayne and Barbara Weiss told me, separately, stories of coming to the apartment mornings, on business, and finding Frank drunk in those last days just before his final illness.

On another subject, it's interesting to me that Jim Kilbourne predicted that Lindsay would soon join the Valliant-ARI contingent and begin attacking me in their terms and for PASSION. I see that it has now happened -- even sooner than Jim expected.

Barbara

(Edited by Brant Gaede on 9/11, 10:50am)


Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Post 113

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 11:00amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Barbara's second e-Mail to me:

_______________________
_______________________
11-09-05 00:33 MST
_______________________

Yes, Brant, please do run my letter -- including the last paragraph! And add this: After Frank's death, Eloise, their maid, found a great many empty liquor bottles in a closet in his studio. (The studio was a separate apartment in their building.) Leonard has never disputed this fact -- and gave the unbelievable and embarrassing "explanation" that Frank used the empty bottles to mix his paints! I don't believe that in the history of art anyone has done this before. Leonard's statement was greeted with hoots of laughter by every painter who heard of it.

Brabara


Sanction: 14, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 14, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 14, No Sanction: 0
Post 114

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 11:36amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Wow, Linz says he is going to read James Valliant's book and Barbara Branden is already making up stories about what Linz thinks of it.

I really like how every time she tells her story of Frank being an alcoholic, it changes. The "witnesses" are dead or a "friend" with no name. (maybe another of her Nambla friends) Now there are "piles of empty bottles." Wait a day and the story changes again, "great many liquor bottles in a closet."

Wait, Jim Kilbourne is going to make another prediction...



Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 115

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 12:56pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Brant,

To the extent that this repeats what Ms. Branden had said in her book, I will refer folks to my own book. I will only repeat that poor Eloise, Ms. Branden's best witness, and the only one named in her biography on this subject, was angry at Ms. Branden because of her accusation against O'Connor. The number of those bottles she found might have been helpful to indicate, since this witness was convinced that O'Connor was not an alcoholic and is the sole source for the report. These may have represented his life's worth of consumption, in any event. My own ever-sober grandmother used liquor bottles in her painting work, so...

But witnesses are not those who are "aware" of something, such as those made "aware" of it by Ms. Branden herself. Witnesses are those with evidence.

Now, if this Elayne and Weiss account is merely an elaboration of what was claimed in the book, then the differences are remarkable. If this is wholly new evidence, then it is equally dubious. In her biography, Ms. Branden had said that a then-unnamed "member of the newsletter staff" came to the door an undisclosed number of times with papers for Rand to sign, only to find O'Connor incoherent. At that time, i.e., when she could have been disputed effectively, Elayne was not named as a direct witness to the drinking, just as being someone who was "convinced" (without the specified foundation here) of O'Connor's drinking, nor, it seems, did Elayne immediately tell Mr. Branden--her brother, remember--either, who had to learn of the alleged alcoholism from Ms. Branden herself only "later." Now, we are told that this staff member was really these two women. Now, we are told they found him drunk inside the apartment... etc.

And, of course, the reports of Elayne and Weiss are again exclusively confined to O'Connor's "last days just before the final illness" when he was suffering the disorienting mental effects of severe arteriosclerosis--something Ms. Branden was aware of and might of mentioned to you in her email--and a period in O'Connor's life totally dissociated from his wife's affair, the alleged cause of his emotional anguish and resulting alcoholism. Ms. Branden claims the drinking began much earlier, but can cite you no evidence to this effect. In her book, in fact, Ms. Branden specifically tells us that none of these people, or any of their other friends, was at all aware of any such excessive drinking at that time.

The only newly identified "witness" is named only after her death. Thanks.
(Edited by James S. Valliant
on 9/11, 1:15pm)


Post 116

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 1:24pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Linz wrote,
"As a recent target of a Branden (Barbara) smear..."

I remember reading an article in which James Kilbourne could be said to have smeared Linz, but I don't recall any such posts from Barbara. As I understand it, Barbara has explained that she mistakenly assumed that Linz's willingness to publish the Drooling Beast article must have been based on his agreeing that he had a problem with alcohol. As far as I can tell, Barbara offered nothing but support and encouragement to Linz. Can someone please point me to the posts in which Barbara "smeared" Linz?

Thanks,
J



Post 117

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 1:28pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Barbara wrote,
"Leonard has never disputed this fact -- and gave the unbelievable and embarrassing "explanation" that Frank used the empty bottles to mix his paints! I don't believe that in the history of art anyone has done this before. Leonard's statement was greeted with hoots of laughter by every painter who heard of it."

Indeed. I remember hearing about Peikoff's "explanation," and, as an artist, getting quite a chuckle out of it. (It was almost as funny as the time back in school when an artist classmate's mother showed up unannounced at his appartment one day and spotted his water bong. He told her that it was a special type of still that artists use to boil down linseed oil and rabbit skin glue sizing. She was actually gullible enough to believe him. We laughed about it for years.)

As far as I'm concerned, Peikoff's silly paint-mixing "explanation" was some of the best supporting evidence of Barbara's claims of Frank's drinking habits.

J


Post 118

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 1:31pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
James wrote,
"My own ever-sober grandmother used liquor bottles in her painting work, so..."

James
As an artist, I'd love to learn the benefits of using booze bottles in painting. Seriously. Since none of the many artists I've ever known has used them in their work, perhaps you could share your grandmother's secret methods and techniques? In what way did she use them? What benefits did she think they offered over any of the numerous, readily-available, cheaper, more easily accessible alternatives that almost all other artists use instead?

Thanks,
J

(Edited by Jonathan on 9/11, 1:38pm)


Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Post 119

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 1:40pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Barbara via Brant writes:

On another subject, it's interesting to me that Jim Kilbourne predicted that Lindsay would soon join the Valliant-ARI contingent and begin attacking me in their terms and for PASSION. I see that it has now happened -- even sooner than Jim expected.

Hahahahaha! I agree to read the book, observing that Brandbourne's Drooling Beast calumny, along with some of the responses to PARC on SOLOHQ, has given me cause for pause. This means I have "joined the Valliant-ARI contingent"?! I haven't even read the bloody thing yet, let alone commented on it.

But what the hell, I've been sprung. Valiant Valliant, Slayer of Branden-Beasts, I salute you & all your works. I hereby summon you to my office at ARI HQ (it's the penthouse suite) for KASS cocktails. (Just remind me to remove the bottles, for Galt's sake.)

Linz the ARIan.



Post to this threadBack one pagePage 0Page 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Page 6Page 7Page 8Page 9Forward one pageLast Page


User ID Password or create a free account.