Conferences

I didn't post this in the "Dissent" topic area because it doesn't suit that topic area. These preliminary lines' purpose is to clarify that this thread is not an insult to this site or anyone here.

Now that I have that out of the way, I have a couple of questions and a comment. In yesterday's mail I got the information for this year's Objectivist Summer Conference 2006 from ARI. This brings me to my comment: It's fucking expensive. I'm not in a bad financial situation but going to this conference as a "General Attendee" and signing up for every session (which I would want to do) would cost around $3,500-4,000 (and that's before March 15 pricing). Is this thing worth going to? I'm not sure I could fit it in the budget even if it were worth going to.

While I'm on the topic of Objectivist Conferences. I looked at the ROR conference thread and need to pose the following question: Is this thing worth going to? Again I point to my opening lines, this question isn't meant as an insult. I'm sure it'll be great to meet the people that go, but how many are actually going to be there? Is it going to be worth my time and money to go?

Thanks,

William

Post 1

Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 4:29pm

William:

     For what it's worth from one who's never attended these things (due to finances re travel, nm, being there), yet, really do wish I could, I have only this advice:

     At THOSE prices, I'd say, consider the analogy of going to a really 'up-scale' restaurant where you know ahead of time that you'll get a wine menu with no prices shown (and you KNOW you're expected to order one of them). -> Are you up to that...or not?

     If not, skip it.

     Else, go for it.

LLAP
J:D

Post 2

Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 5:39pm

William,

Also, TOC hasn't posted their weeklong seminar yet, but prices are typically $900 for the conference fee and about $300 for room and meals for the week.

Jim

Post 3

Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 5:40pm

Also, TOC has student and recent graduate conference fees of about $200.

Jim

Post 4

Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 6:07pm

William,

The ARI price will assure that you will be accompanied with men who have acquired large amounts of resources. What type of ideas and men are you promoting with such a trade? What are they offering? Have you sampled a random population of their clients to determine whether they provide what you desire? I guess that is what you are looking for now.

If you live near by you could try going to one of the classes instead of buying an entire 8-course deal. Maybe they have sample audio recordings of courses?

Post 5

Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 8:30pm

> on the topic of Objectivist Conferences...the ROR conference thread and need to pose the following question: Is this thing worth going to? [William]

I've been to an ARI conference, to one Solo conference (Soloc4) and many TOC conferences and I would *definitely* pick the TOC summer conference (even if my expenses weren't paid as a speaker) over the other alternatives. My reasons are the combination (for me) of the friendliness and compatibility of the people and the intellectual quality. While there were some drawbacks to the Solo (some of the people are different and some the same at Ror) and the ARI conference, I highly recommend the TOC conferences without reservation. I've invariably had a wonderful week every time I've gone. Superb group of people without the usual Objectivist social skills problems.

Post 6

Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 8:31pm

William,

Wow, that is a lot, 3 to 4 grand.

My advice is do your homework. Find out who is speaking and what they are talking on. If you don't know the speakers, google them. Do this for any conference your interested in. Often you can tell online if you want to hear a particular speaker by an example of their writing (that you will fine online).

Exhausting your research will undoubtedly give clarity on how much you will be willing to spend.

hahahahah, another perspective is like what John recomended, compare it to something else, for example you could buy a small work of mine. ;)

Michael

Post 7

Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 11:14pm

William,

I think you'd be hard-pressed to spend $3,000 or $4,000 at the ARI Conference. It looks like you get the general sessions for $800- plus option courses for under $200-. Then lodging, admittedly, is gonna hurt ya at $140+ per night. But you could split the costs there with a roomie or even find another place to stay around town.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to sign up for all for optional plans because they overlap and you couldn't possibly attend them all. You can get this done for $1500- I expect.

The TOC Conference is a great time as well. My experience is that TOC is a bit more down-to-earth socially and that the lectures at ARI are more likely to knock your socks off.

Post 8

Thursday, February 9, 2006 - 4:44pm

Well, just reading the ARI information packet caught my interest in almost all of the general and optional speakers. If I were to go I would like to get the most out of it that I can, which means seeing all speakers. By the way, you can see all the courses because they are positioned into two different sessions, so every course is repeated once in the 9-day period. If you choose to see only half then you have about 8 hours a day to kill. It can be done, but why not hear what these people have to say. So if you choose to see all the plans and attend every event it's close to $3,700. That's a roundabout number, I can't remember the exact figure I came up with, but anyso.....

Thanks to everyone, you guys really helped. I think I'll skip the ARI this year, maybe next year I'll go. And you've also peaked my interest in TOC's conference, I'll be waiting for them to post something about it.

Thanks again,
William

P.S.
Lance, you say that the social experience at TOC was more down to earth, can you explain please? Thanks.

Post 9

Thursday, February 9, 2006 - 5:26pm

I just want to add one more point on TOC and ARI conferences. I would choose a summer conference in large part on the vacation and friendliness and social and personal discussions aspects as opposed to exclusively the intellectual content. I can get that another way. One can buy tapes more cheaply than attending a conference. For me personally (which may not be true for another person), the '94 ARI conference was unpleasant and depressing, although there were many excellent lectures including those by Peikoff.

I had always felt surrounded by friends at the TJS conferences (the conferences that existed prior to this one.)

This time I was a pariah.

Someone had let an obscenely vicious, giant, six-foot two, scowling, two hundred-and-twenty pound monster loose in the room. Don't poke the bear or feed candy to the bear. Tiptoe gently around it. I was largely shunned because I was said to be an AUTKS (Abject, Unrepentant, Tolerationist-Kelleyite Scum). Not a single person came up to talk to me or ask me about this issue after my initial conversation with Peter Schwartz in which I told him I thought his Libertarianism essay was completely wrong about libertarians because it lumped them all into one pot. I have no idea if the atmosphere is different or looser in 2006, a dozen years later, but I have no desire to "experiment" to find out: I don't mind (and found immensely valuable) spending an afternoon at the one-day ARI session in Northern California last year -- where Yaron Brook very persuasively explains their effective programs and strategies and which is like a business meeting which doesn't include socializing. But at the other extreme, I don't want to spend a total immersion week when I'm not around friends or people who have no respect for me, being unable to even find friends as a -subgroup- of the conference.

Post 10

Thursday, February 9, 2006 - 5:54pm

That's OK , Phil. I wear my AUTKS badge with pride :-). Actually, we must be AOTPOD. Acting on the premise of death :-).

Jim

(Edited by James Heaps-Nelson on 2/09, 6:02pm)

Post 11

Thursday, February 9, 2006 - 7:02pm

Phil:

Clearly, you have to watch where (and to whom) you voice disagreements about...'X'...unless getting ostracism-by-TB-'followers' is one's kind of thing.

LLAP
J:D

Post 12

Thursday, February 9, 2006 - 7:27pm

I think ARI wants you to pawn your mind to the hockshops of authority instead of redeeming it :-).

Jim

Post 13

Thursday, February 9, 2006 - 8:13pm

Definitely a place where the mind is a terrible thing to waste.....

Post 14

Saturday, February 11, 2006 - 4:40pm

P.S.
Lance, you say that the social experience at TOC was more down to earth, can you explain please? Thanks.

William, I've been to 3 TOC conferences and I'll never forget how awestruck I was by the earnesty of the people I met at the first one I went to in 2001 (U Pitt at Johnstown). People kept asking about me and my life and they were genuinely interested in learning about me. It took me over a day to get used to that. And I was on a high from that Conference for 6 months afterwards.

Every night at the TOC conference there is a room reserved they call the Common Room and whoever is interested comes to meet, greet, and talk about whatever is on their mind. And crucial to process: they have booze. Now some years the room is better than others. The room they had at UCLA was too noisy and I didn't enjoy that one as much. The U Pitt Johnstown and the Vancouver 2004 Common Rooms were great. They work really hard to make it a great event and I've enjoyed it thoroughly. All praise to Jamie Dorrian for her hard work in putting those conferences together.

Now, there are certainly some goofballs in the mix as well. But there is a very high percentage of good people at the TOC Conference. And they tend to be more of the "live and let live" variety than the folks at ARI. I went to an ARI conference in the 90s (the lectures were fantastic!) and the social aspects were painful. The people were, by and large, uncomfortable in that social setting. They didn't show much genuine interest in each other but seemed very interested in bragging about different things. Not that they intend to be arrogant...perhaps they just become overly anxious in a group setting. And there was too much pretentiousness in that particular case. But then I remember John Lewis who is a class act all the way and he alone was worth dealing with any of the others who were jokers.

I have been told that the social aspects have improved at ARI in recent years.

Post 15

Saturday, February 11, 2006 - 8:05pm

Interesting - I was at the Johnstown one - did we meet? [not remember seeing a hairy faced person, tho....;-)]

Post 16

Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 8:23am

Thank you for elaborating on that. It makes me wonder about something........I think I'll need to start another thread or write an article though.

William

Post 17

Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 9:17am

But then I remember John Lewis who is a class act all the way and he alone was worth dealing with any of the others who were jokers.

Lance,

I love John Lewis. He was part of the first Objectivst group I began meeting with in 1995 while he was studying for a degree at a local university and I was just beginning my own Objectivist studies. He provided more intellectual stimulation than anyone else in the group and was also funny as hell. He was back in Rhode Island for a brief visit recently and is as wonderful as ever.

Post 18

Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 6:45pm

John's is an inspiring story for anyone who is stuck in a rut or a dead end and wants a better career. He had been working all his life in the insurance industry in Hartford, Connecticut, if I recall, when I met him years ago at a summer conference. I liked him immediately. Well past college age and in mid-career or middle age, he had spent many years as an employee in the business world. I don't know all the details, but I guess he must have just decided one day that he would do what it took to enter an entirely different profession for which he had no background: Go back to school and study classics. Learn the ancient languages. Get accepted at one of the two most prestigious universities in England. Get a Ph.D. in Classics. Find a job as a professor (difficult I would imagine, because few students study Greek and Latin or "ancient history" these days, so one would have to suspect there are probably few professorships and lots of competition for them.)

He achieved every one of his goals, which took years and can't have been cheap...or easy, since it was totally different from his previous business career. He is now a professor of Classics at a university in the Midwest who has published in academic journals and lectured frequently at Objectivist conferences.

So never fail to change your life if there is something better you yearn for, once you are sure enough of your exact goal that a the single-minded effort is worth it. Shoot for your dreams, no matter how high up and far away they are.

Phil

Post 19

Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 9:11pm