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Post 20

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 8:58amSanction this postReply
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You can disagree, but don't patronize her.
As if calling her an "idiot" accomplishes so much, right, Michael?  That's a real consistent use of principle.  What an encouraging and persuasive use of nouns.

So, "real" Objectivists think the worst of people when they make common errors.  How typical. How destructive. How arcane.




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Post 21

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 9:01amSanction this postReply
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I've been on the admission committee of our school since last semester. The lengths we'd go in order to take in more minority students was a big shock to me. All because our graduate program, partially funded by an NIH grant, is facing the risk of not getting the grant renewed due to the lack of representation of minority students. And, yes, quite a few minority students are at the bottom of the class.




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Post 22

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 9:11amSanction this postReply
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What a ridiculously flawed argument against Affirmative Action.
Alright, then address specific parts of the argument.

If not for Affirmative Action, their (Chinese-Americans) percentages would be lower to not at all.
Prove it.
The "token" Blacks and minorities will generally know twice as much as their predecessors (sp)
Huh?
As far as somebody mentioning somebody's white child not getting into Princeton because of Affirmative Action, what a convenient excuse for a kid who couldn't cut it.
This isn't even an argument... it's unsubstantiated speculation.
I attended Graduate School at Harvard University with a shamefully small percentage of Blacks and other so-called minorities, all of whom, like me, graduated at the top of their undergraduate studies class.
Define "shamefully small percentage", and then please enlighten us as to what the proper percentage of each race should be in any given institution.
But who's suprised, really, at middle-aged white men against Affirmative Action.
I'm 23. Since you don't seem to accept arguments from "white men", I suggest you read the following articles: "Affirmative Action" and College Graduation Rates; "Affirmative Action" Quotas on Trial; & Affirmative Action Grading. The first two are by Thomas Sowell, the last by Walter Williams. Both are black. You seem to care about that.




Post 23

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 9:21amSanction this postReply
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If she finds the articles persuasive because the authors are black, we will have an interesting situation indeed!

(Edited by Rodney Rawlings on 7/12, 9:22am)




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Post 24

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 9:36amSanction this postReply
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Teresa-

I don't care if it's constructive or not. I've had enough of trying to educate fools.  People come on here with highly irrational arguments (I appreciate Fauth's breakdown above) full of ad hominems, fallacies and emotional claptrap, and I am tired of it.  I don't mind arguing with say, an intelligent libertarian, Objectivist, conservative or liberal, but if someone's going to come on here and essentially call us all dumb old honkies, then they deserve the label idiot.  They should wear it proudly, but I don't want idiots here.




Post 25

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 9:39amSanction this postReply
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There is some advantage to the articles written by the two (black) men you mention, both of whom I admire greatly.  The reason is that being the age and race that they are, they did actually and personally get to experience some blatant racism themselves.  That means that they can write with a sense of experience that, for example, I could not write with just as I could not write as well about climbing mountains as could an experienced climber.  Not quite the same, as many of the principals are universal, but still I believe that the experiences do make a difference.



Post 26

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 10:46amSanction this postReply
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I'm an equal opportunity bigot; I hate everybody! Except my dog, cat, the bugs around my apartment, the canada geese by the river, my mom, dad, sister, neices, nephew, this forum, and etc. ^_^;

-- Bridget



Post 27

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 10:47amSanction this postReply
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To those here that might post in anger (or irritation).  There are many times when we react on an instinctual basis, or a with superficial reasoning (we are all guilty of that).  I think that a topic like this does deserves some well-reasoned reflection from many perspectives.  Oversimplification of a topic like this can be easy and should be avoided.  I am going to give it some serious reflection today and post my opinion later, I would encourage others to do the same.  I am not saying that I am superior in some way to others who post here, it is just my way of coming to decisions and it works well for me. Lets face it humans are a complicated fucked up set of contradictions and inconsistencies with no easy answers. 



Post 28

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:06amSanction this postReply
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Hi Charles,

Calm reasoning is always best, however, the case of affirmative action is very simple.

Affirmative Action is racism pure and simple. Nothing more.

Ethan




Post 29

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:16amSanction this postReply
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When one is measured on their ability, then race has no meaning.

Besides, don't the folks know that race does not delimit who is really the best? I thought the geneticists explained that a decade ago, oi! The only thing race is good for is medical classification, not whether someone will be the next Michael Jordan or Albert Einstein. So, remember kiddies, there is no gene for race, that's been proven so don't buy into the Anthropology (*Coughs* 'science' based on religion called Theosopy... *Coughs*) textbook drivel.

-- Bridget



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Post 30

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 12:14pmSanction this postReply
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Besides - we ALL 'came from Africa'.......



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Post 31

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 12:49pmSanction this postReply
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I attended Graduate School at Harvard University with a shamefully small percentage of Blacks and other so-called minorities, all of whom, like me, graduated at the top of their undergraduate studies class.


I'd assume anyone who aspires to go to graduate school, by default, should be at the top of their undergraduate class. However, I've also learnt that the aptitudes of these top students vary very much depending on their undergrad institutes.

PS. I agree that the tiny percentage of minority students in grad school is shameful. But the shame is not on the grad schools.

(Edited by Hong Zhang on 7/12, 2:23pm)




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Post 32

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 1:07pmSanction this postReply
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Charles:

To those here that might post in anger (or irritation). There are many times when we react on an instinctual basis, or a with superficial reasoning (we are all guilty of that). I think that a topic like this does deserves some well-reasoned reflection from many perspectives. Oversimplification of a topic like this can be easy and should be avoided. I am going to give it some serious reflection today and post my opinion later, I would encourage others to do the same. I am not saying that I am superior in some way to others who post here, it is just my way of coming to decisions and it works well for me. Lets face it humans are a complicated fucked up set of contradictions and inconsistencies with no easy answers.


Hi Charles, I've studied Affirmative Action and it's implications and the results of it. It was a requirement as part of my studies in college. Although you may have not have studied the matter, and you will be posting your opinions soon, it's not like opponents of Affirmative Action like Bill, Ethan, Bridget, myself et al, have not thought about this policy. I believe we've all given it enough thought. It is simply racist. I came to this conclusion years ago, and I've periodically looked at the subject matter now for the last 10 years and have continued to give it more thought, and lo and behold, I've still come to the conclusion it is morally reprehensible, and empirically not viable. Bill's conclusions on the topic are the same as mine. Which are the same conclusions many individuals who respect individuality over group mentality have come to.

I would say Charles, that proponents of Affirmative Action, even after given reasoned arguments against it, even after the data, after reality that is, tells us it's a wrong headed policy, still latch onto the idea of race based discrimination, are the ones who are "fucked up" as you say.

So please don't take this the wrong way as I don't mean to alienate you from this forum, but speak for yourself, I'm not all humans, and I don't regard myself as "fucked up".



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