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Friday, August 31, 2007 - 2:12pmSanction this postReply
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Hello All:

I became aware of the Freegan movement no more than 10 minutes ago- found it deplorable- and thought some of you might want to learn about these ultimate moochers, the Freegans.

Freegans aim to drop out of the economic system entirely by not participating in the purchase of goods. Instead, they simply live off what other people discard. So not only do they need creators and producers to support their lifestyle, they need consumers to purchase a mild surplus so that they themselves can then produce and consume their own goods in their own smaller scale economy.

Top marks for creativity, an F for morality.

To learn more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeganism
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2208977856

All the best,

Tyson


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Post 1

Sunday, September 2, 2007 - 12:43pmSanction this postReply
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To what extent should I feel outraged by these people? Their own hypocrisy will be their undoing, even if they don't realize it yet. At the same time, the essence of what they advocate could, if only in the short run, be compatible with capitalist ethics, so long as they only dive in dumpsters with the express permission of the dumpsters' owners.

They could ask for permission, but that would be too much like honest charity, wouldn't it? Yeah, give 'em enough rope to make them realize that they'll never have enough rope to hang themselves with.

In all seriousness, I have to ask, what indications do you get that freegans will suddenly start making persuasive arguments advocating the infringements of other people's rights? When will they start crying out, "You should throw stuff out for us"?

Making the most of my time is a hard enough. Why should I be distracted by unwarrented fears of an implosive ideology like freeganism? If I'm wrong, then tell me why!

Post 2

Thursday, September 6, 2007 - 3:44pmSanction this postReply
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I doubt one has a right to remove trash from a closed dumpster on private property, but it is an established principle of law that trash by the roadside is abandoned property, subject to appropriation by private individuals and search by the police without a warrant.

We have a sect of freegans in NYC, they are called homeless, and they do at least keep the streets free of bottles and cans with a deposit value. The homeless normally search garbage bags for discarded recyclables and then reseal the bags afterwards. I have no problem with them occupying this economic niche and keeping the city that much cleaner at no cost.

Ted



Post 3

Thursday, September 6, 2007 - 5:12pmSanction this postReply
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There are several in my area that go around and keep the grounds free of cans and bottles.....

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Post 4

Thursday, September 6, 2007 - 7:54pmSanction this postReply
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In the OC, it varies wildly by area.  Irvine, the large perfectly regulated majority Chinese yuppie enclave, vigorously prosecutes dumpster divers by most reports, making it a misdemeanor, although the ubiquitous Mexicans with their stake bed trucks collecting cardboard are mostly ignored.

Santa Ana, the largest and most central OC city, which is about 90% Hispanic, and about 1/3 undocumented, has a pretty loose attitude, although there are signs of a crackdown in progress.  Not only do the guys and gals on bicycles tend to leave a lot of trash scattered about, but also they destroy many usable CRT monitors, utterly ignorant of all the toxic exposure that tearing those things apart with a hammer or a brick creates for them and the surrounding area. 

Typically, first some guy will do a quick sweep and cut the cords of every electronic appliance he finds in the dumpsters or set out by some business in the hopes that someone will cart it off.  This effectively destroys any real possibility of actually using what are often perfectly good units, as the time and effort to solder a new VGA cord would not be worth the risk that the unit was non-functional to begin with. 

The cord cutter makes a couple pennies for the copper, often burning the plastic off in a metal trash can, thereby adding yet more pollution to the lead and other toxins.  Then, late at night, sometimes 2 or 3 AM, I will hear the repeated crashing as another bicycler systematically smashes the thing on the pavement, leaving little shards of glass and metal everywhere, in order to get at the little copper wires or pieces of aluminum.

Ultimately, the state pays out of taxpayer money to the tune of $10 or more, alledgedly, to clean up the mess that made perhaps 25 cents for the perps. 

Note that I personally always check the local dumpsters - at least glancing at them - as I pass by coming or going from home, as there is still often good stuff, almost anything you can imagine, ending up in them, and many of my everyday clothes as well as TVs and other video or audio gear has come from that source. 

A couple years ago I also discovered by shear accident that one local discount supermarket was throwing out literally tons of perfectly good food, such as 5 pound sealed cheeses, just because the sale date had run out.  For several months, I spent virtually zero bucks on food and ate prime rib and pricey organic fruits and Norwegian cheeses, always careful to clean the wrappings thoroughly, etc.  I figure that I saved $500.

Then the local freegan or homeless community discovered the dumpster and it became so popular that the supermarket started retaliating by pouring dye or icky powder over all the perfectly good food, and it was no longer worth the trouble to me.  I offered to BUY the food from the market just before the dates ran out, as I would not have bought it at full price anyway, and they would have the money and I the food, but of course the manager had no authority to bypass corporate policy.

And of course, one general solution would be for people to sell old stuff instead of throwing it away.  And, the Mexicans are far from loath to do just that.  In fact, 15 years or so ago, the barrios were unbelievable wall-to-wall yard sales every single weekend, and the downtown merchants were dying because nobody was buying anything retail anymore.

But the City of Santa Ana is not run for the benefit of the Hispanic majority, but rather for the sole interests of a clique of ultra-wealthy, mostly Anglos, who own all the major business property.  So, they passed a law against yard sales, initially outlawing them altogether, with a $500 fine attached.  When that drew protest, despite the Mexican habit of simply accepting whatever the jefe tells them, they relented and allowed sales on four weekends per year.

This meant that everyone was trying to get rid of everything at the same time.  The consequence was that prices went to near zero and the sales were no longer worthwhile, although a few hopeful souls persist.  So now, the stuff that would be sold and resold, saving untold money and pollution, gets trashed and the dumpster divers are the beneficiaries and have proliferated until they have become a real nuisance and an environmental hazard as I discuss above.

All to protect the fascists running things, once again.  Now they are apparently starting to react, however, busting the illegals living on the street, which costs the City again, as they cannot possibly pay any fine, and thus end up in jail, eating taxpayer financed food and getting free medical care.  Simply allowing the yard sales again would fix the problem, but that is highly unlikely, about as unlikely as the market doing the rational thing of heavily discounting just before expiration.

(Edited by Phil Osborn on 9/06, 8:10pm)


Post 5

Monday, September 10, 2007 - 8:24pmSanction this postReply
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And, by the (il)logic that seems to be the tenor of some of the earlier posts, if one were marooned on a desert island and there were the choice of picking up fruit that had fallen to the ground, or making a hazardous climb to the very topmost fruit, clearly the moral thing to do would be to throw those easy pickings out to sea, and prove ones moral worth by risking life and limb for the same net return...

How silly.  It reminds me of that wonderful comic romance movie, starring Tony Curtis and Doris Day, I think, in which each tries to prove to the other by throwing something valuable off Niagra falls.  ~"I love you SO much that I'm going to throw my prized diamond Tiara..."  Until both are reduced to tears and have come to hate each other.


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Post 6

Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 10:21amSanction this postReply
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I don't mind the idea of exchanging these products with such folks, but only for other goods. The problem is that the government's own regulations force grocery stores to throw out food that is still safe (and pretty damn good) to eat. If they were allowed to sell it for some reduced price (clearly I wouldn't buy it at full price, nor do I know anyone that would either...), it would be a great benefit for the business and folks who have to get more out of their few dollars that they earn. I know freegans are dead set against this, btw.

I know folks who do something similar to freeganism, but not by leeching/mooching from anyone. Rather you post items on a forum/BBS you don't want anymore (and that you don't wish to throw away). When someone else wants it they just send you off an email saying they'll be able to pick it up at a certain date and time, and you leave it out at that time or wait for the person to pick up the item. Often, such folks will even trade items they don't want for what they want (You got X, and they got Y which you want, and they want X...blahblahblah...). Basically, it's classic neighbor trading, which I love, compared to this freegan drivel. I can't remember of what this is called, but I'll check around my podcasts (because I heard of it recently) to find out.


-- Brede

Post 7

Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 8:02pmSanction this postReply
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The grocery that I used to get all my free food from was actually setting food out in boxes for people to take as they chose for a while.  Then I'm sure that somehow the attorneys and insurance companies got involved and they stopped that for good.  I suspect that in many cases stores would be more than happy to sell very cheap or give away perishables, but are legitimately concerned about potential liability.  So, they turn their backs when they see some homeless person going through the trash, but if they can't, then they have to enforce the rules or face our corrupt court system when somebody gets sick and claims it was from eating food from their dumpster.

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