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Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:48pmSanction this postReply
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I am pleased with the "your second favorite philosopher" thread, so here is its evil twin...

I'd like to know who your least favorite philosopher is and why BUT with restrictions.

1. I expect Kant to be #1 on the hitlist, as is Objectivist tradition, but if not Kant, then who?

2. Rand, off the cuff, mentions a number of other philosophers that I'd think would show up on Objectivists' naughty philosopher list -- e.g., Plato, Hegel, Hume, Heidegger, Bentham. You are welcome to give them the hairy eyeball, but don't dwell. Stick with the fresh meet.

And....Go!

Jordan




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Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:53pmSanction this postReply
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I nominate Karl Marx for reasons that history should make obvious.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 3/12, 5:38am)


Post 2

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 3:11pmSanction this postReply
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Hmm. I'd say you broke restriction #2. But ok. ;-)

Jordan

Post 3

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 5:54pmSanction this postReply
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Actually, Marx was not on the list.  Fault him as we can and do, his work was an extension of the Enlightenment, an attempt at a testable explanation of a complex event.  Don't ask me to defend him beyond that, but there are worse, closer to  home.  The post-modernists, Derrida and Rorty, make Marx seem realistic and rational.

Marx asks: Why do people hate their jobs?  Where do social classes originate? What perpetuates social class?  What would it take to let people like their work?

Derrida says: "To pretend, I actually do the thing: I have therefore only pretended to pretend.”
Derrida quotes Rousseau as saying that 'the tyranny of writing goes even further. By imposing itself upon the masses, spelling influences and modifies language'
Thus, as Derrida says, 'the graphic image is not seen; and the acoustic image is not heard'. There is, rather, the perception of differences.
Contrary to what phenomenology- which is always phenomenology of perception- has tried to make us believe, contrary to what our desire cannot fail to be tempted into believing, the thing itself always escapes."
"The future can only be anticipated in the form of an absolute danger. It is that which breaks absolutely with constituted normality and can only be proclaimed, presented, as a sort of monstrosity."



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Post 4

Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 7:51amSanction this postReply
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MEM wrote:

Marx asks: Why do people hate their jobs? Where do social classes originate? What perpetuates social class? What would it take to let people like their work?

Before Marx: "My job sucks and I am at risk of a firing."
After Marx: "My job still sucks and I am at risk of a firing squad."

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 3/12, 8:00am)


Post 5

Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 12:09pmSanction this postReply
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Michael,

Marx is most definitely on Rand's naughty philosopher list. I just didn't include him among my examples.

Jordan

Post 6

Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 12:37pmSanction this postReply
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If I had to pick an intellectual not on Ayn Rand's naughty list, I would select Howard Zinn for the simple reason that I had to suffer through eleventh grade reading his leftist rant A People's History of the United States as part of Advanced Placement (AP) American History.

Post 7

Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 2:22pmSanction this postReply
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Funny, Luke. My latest least fave would be Adorno, whom I read for a reading group. Adorno writes like boiled poop. The philosophers whom I generally despite are those who write very, very poorly, e.g., Heidegger, Kierkegaard, Adorno, Baudrillard, Derrida. Even if they have good stuff to say -- and for the very most part, they really don't -- I just can't stomach them.

Jordan

Post 8

Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 7:36pmSanction this postReply
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Adorno. Scourge of the music world. He gets my vote.

Post 9

Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 7:58pmSanction this postReply
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In politics, Rousseau, who pretty much invented collectivism.  I read his philosophical writings in college and, more recently, excerpts from his memoirs.  The latter show him to be the archetype of the self-absorbed, nothing-to-offer bore that progressive education, psychoanalysis and multiculturalism let loose on the world in the twentieth century.

Post 10

Friday, March 13, 2009 - 2:59amSanction this postReply
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Hi,
I am highly satisfied with the above information.

kim



Post 11

Friday, March 13, 2009 - 9:29amSanction this postReply
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I'd say that Auguste Comte, who coined, introduced and promoted "altruism" should definitively be added to the list. He's one of the great bad guys to Objectivism.

Post 12

Friday, March 13, 2009 - 2:14pmSanction this postReply
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Hobbes is probably my second least favorite philosopher (he rivals even Kant in producing harm on earth).

Folks say that Plato paved the way for religion (through splitting reality into two, he fueled the Witch-Doctor; the Mystics of Spirit) and for statism (with a philosopher-king, he justified Attila; the Mystics of Muscle), but Plato was just a tiny pilot light compared to the full-burn of Hobbes' anti-man philosophy.

Hobbes provided the philosophical teeth for Machiavelli's Prince. Hobbes justified all kinds of wrongful behavior. Indeed, perhaps half of all of the unnecessary pain and suffering on this planet -- especially that produced, at least in part, by our last two presidents -- can be traced back to Hobbes' wrong writings about Man and the State.

Indirectly, Hobbes promoted religion, too. Plato was just the precursor to someone as harmful as Hobbes.

Ed



Post 13

Friday, March 13, 2009 - 3:44pmSanction this postReply
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Been re reading Durant's The Story of Philosophy [been many, many years since last time] and note - putting Plato in context of the times, it is understandable him making those mistakes...

Post 14

Friday, March 13, 2009 - 4:12pmSanction this postReply
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Religion was thousands of years old by the time Plato came along.  Hobbes was born several decades after Machiavelli died and couldn't have influenced, justified or prepared the way for his elder.

Post 15

Friday, March 13, 2009 - 8:06pmSanction this postReply
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At least Plato, Hobbes, and Machiavelli are readable. :-)

Jordan

Post 16

Friday, March 13, 2009 - 9:50pmSanction this postReply
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Peter,

Hobbes was born several decades after Machiavelli died and couldn't have influenced, justified or prepared the way for his elder.
You misread me. Machiavelli mainly wrote about how things were. In that respect, he was an historian, not a philosopher. He was doing more describing than prescribing. Hobbes, coming later in the game, morally justified Machiavellian vice. He actually prescribed a brutal state (as a moral prescription).

You can justify things after they've been described (you might call it "rationalizing" things) and, in that way, you prescribe the thing you rationalize (you justify maintaining them). That's what Hobbes did with Machiavelli.

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 3/13, 9:51pm)


Post 17

Friday, March 13, 2009 - 9:53pmSanction this postReply
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Peter,

Religion was thousands of years old by the time Plato came along.
But organized religion really took off after Plato.

Ed


Post 18

Friday, March 13, 2009 - 10:39pmSanction this postReply
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Mine is Michel Foucault. Then again I never liked post-modern 'philosophy' at all. *shrugs*

Post 19

Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 1:59pmSanction this postReply
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#16 is a claim about intellectual history and about the biography of Hobbes.  I'd have to see the evidence.  A quick Googling of "hobbes machiavelli" shows that people have compared the two (often in for-sale term papers), but none of the entries I looked at claimed that Hobbes was out to justify Machiavelli or that he was even aware of him.

#17 is simply inaccurate.  The theocracy of ancient Egypt is one counter-example that comes to mind.  Even if organized religion had started post Plato that wouldn't show that it got started propter Plato.


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