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Post 20

Tuesday, November 29, 2011 - 9:43pmSanction this postReply
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Jules — So what?

Post 21

Tuesday, November 29, 2011 - 10:57pmSanction this postReply
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Exactly my point kate...

Post 22

Thursday, December 8, 2011 - 7:26amSanction this postReply
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Michael:

re: we have a hard time imagining what it was like only seven or eight thousand years ago when people literally could not tell up from down but used the same word to mean "away from me."

On the plus side, it was not even possible for them to fuck-up.

regards,
Fred

Post 23

Monday, February 20, 2012 - 4:57amSanction this postReply
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Ed Thompson in 4: "I don't remember this particular story."
But, Ed posted a link to a similar story earlier with his comment about "anthropomorphizers" here.

I found that searching for this topic because I have a recent story.

This past weekend, I volunteered at "Civil Engineering Day" at the Austin Children's Museum (on my blog here).  Most of the afternoon, I was making paper helicopters.  Usually, I encouraged the kids to take apart any of the ones on the table to see how they are made.  I explained a bit about how they work.  One time, I had a piece of paper with an accidental fold in it.  So, I carefully refolded it and scored it with my thumbnail.  The little girl opposite me who was well on her way to a complete task, did the same thing with hers, even though she did not need to.  I remembered this discussion.

On a different slant, it is wrong to assume that so-called "primitive" languages today inform us essentially about language in the distant past.  Just for instance, linguists have a theorem that people do not invent words for brown and purple until after they have differentiated blue from green.  You would think that the blue sky and green leaves would be "natural."  These colors are all in and of our experiential world.  Yet, words for them develop slowly (or rapidly at times: aquamarine, cerulean, chartreuse). In Indo-European languages, BL words denote a swelling: bell, belly, blade, blood, blue. Swelling is the basic concept.  The variations express differential perceptions... over 8,000 years or perhaps 100,000.  ...  All animals have calls.  Crows have about 30 in two dialects.  Although rooted in calls, language is something else.

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 2/20, 5:00am)


Post 24

Monday, February 20, 2012 - 7:20amSanction this postReply
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"Just for instance, linguists have a theorem that people do not invent words for brown and purple until after they have differentiated blue from green."

I've read similar; in ART AND PHYSICS, the claim is that the first colors we conceptualize are red, yellow, white, and black, the same colors found in native "dreamcatchers," with blue coming later...

Post 25

Monday, February 20, 2012 - 8:00amSanction this postReply
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(Though some critics point out Herodotus mentioning indigo...)
(Edited by Joe Maurone on 2/20, 8:00am)


Post 26

Monday, February 20, 2012 - 6:21pmSanction this postReply
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Mike,

Just for instance, linguists have a theorem that people do not invent words for brown and purple until after they have differentiated blue from green.
A wiki-search reveals facts which seem to align with such a theory. Blue and green apparently entered into the English language by around 700 AD, but it took another 300 years (circa 1000 AD) before we had brown and purple. Interestingly, we didn't have orange until 1512. This presents a conundrum. I'm sure that we were eating oranges before 1512, but I'm not sure what we called them back then -- maybe red-yellows?

:-)

All animals have calls. Crows have about 30 in two dialects. Although rooted in calls, language is something else.
Mortimer Adler does a good job at differentiating between these 2 things. Communication in the animal world is communication via signals, while communication in the human world also involves communication via signs. Signs are different from signals in that they can represent paragraphs upon paragraphs of conceptual data.

Ed


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